Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
So interesting Elwin Scotter! No my family but great info and insight.
On Jan 11, 2022, at 5:13 PM, Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:
Anjeanette,
There are some trees on Ancestry that give Annie Jeanette Crawford’s birth as 22.12.1861 in Drumshanbo, Co. Leitrim. Have you investigated that? Birth registration didn’t start in Ireland till 1864 so for a birth before that you need to rely on church baptism records. Not all those records are on-line.
Griffiths Valuation c 1860 lists a Mark Crawford and a John Crawford both living in Drumshanbo Town. http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml
They appear to have been father & son. Mark died in 1873 aged 80. Informant was John.
This looks to be John in the 1901 census:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Leitrim/Drumshanbo/Drumshanbo_Town/1483718/
That family were Methodist in 1901 though originally they’d have been Church of Ireland (it’s complicated but in short, Methodism took a long time to become established as a separate denomination in Ireland and some Methodists still used the Church of Ireland for baptisms and marriages till around 1870).
Drumshanbo Town is in the civil parish of Kiltoghert. The Church of Ireland records for that parish start in 1827. The originals are in the RCB library in Dublin. They are not on-line there and so you would need to go yourself or get a researcher to look them up. However the Rootsireland site has some years on its database, so you could try that. (Subscription site).
For Methodist records, you could try the Methodist Historical Society at Edgehill Theological College in Belfast. They were in the process of copying all surviving Methodist records in Ireland, and if they don’t have the Drumshanbo records, they may be able to advise who to contact. Many are still held by the local Minister. You could ask whoever has the records to look for Annie Jeanette’s birth/baptism. With a specific date that shouldn’t be too difficult. If there are no Methodist records for Drumshanbo, try the Church of Ireland instead.
https://methodisthistoryireland.org/irish-methodist-baptismal-and-marriage-records/
John Crawford married Ann Jones in 1858, so if she was born in 1861, that fits reasonably well for them to be Annie Jeanette’s parents.
Perhaps you have her parents names from her marriage or death certificate?
The only snag with all this is that Drumshanbo isn’t all that close to Co Tyrone, in Irish terms anyway. But I can only go by what someone has posted on their tree.
Hope this helps.
Elwyn
On Tuesday, 11 January 2022, 20:54:55 GMT, AJ Staley via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:
Thanks to all who have given me such wonderful direction. Just to let you know here is my brick wall I am working on:
I have been stuck for a number of years on one Robert A. Moffatt Born 3 Oct 1853 in Ireland, could be from a place called Bellanean? But no proof of place, only hearsay. The A could stand for Alexander or possibly Anderson. Immigrated to the US in 1873 per 1900 census. Know that he married on 6 Feb 1881 in Leetonia, Columbiana, Ohio to Annie Jeannette Crawford also went by Anna J or Anna Jean). After a few years and they moved to Lawrence Co., Pennsylvania and lived in a couple of different towns there until his death in 1928
Robert had a brother Joseph Moffat that I found and a Sister Elizabeth that had also immigrated to the US.
Joseph was born about 1850 in Ireland and came a few years before as I found him working in Columbiana as a labor and in a family by the name of Digne who came from Ireland the mother and father and several of the children all born there, and a couple born in the United States. Joseph married one of the older girls in that family in Columbiana, Columbiana Co., Ohio. They later show up in New Castle, Lawrence Co., Pennsylvania census records and he died in 1896. According to the obituary found for Robert, Josephs son was a pall bearer for Robert when he died. It is the only clue that Joseph and Robert were brothers other than they both were in Columbiana, Columbiana Co., Ohio during one period of time.
Elizabeth was born 8 Jul 1861 in Tyrone, Ireland per her death notice. She married in 1890 New Castle, Lawrence Co., Pennsylvania. Her death was in 1920 and Robert is listed as her brother in the obituary. She did not immigrate to the US until 1887 or 1888 depending on which U S census you believe 1900 or 1920. Her obituary is the only one that lists her parent as William and Nancy Moffatt.
So, I will be looking in Tyrone and surrounding areas. As Roberts wife Anna Jeannette is said to have lived near where Robert lived in Ireland, but did not know him until she met him when visiting a cousin in Columbiana, Columbiana Co., Ohio.
Sorry for the long twisted story of the problem, but it may shed some light to someone else that has been down this trial.
Thanks again,
Anjeannette Staley
From: Francesca Piantadosi via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 9:19 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: Francesca Piantadosi francescawrites@icloud.com
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
I too have Moffats from my grandmother. I was able to find his birth certificate and a relative I didn’t know who lives in England. Which Moffatt are you looking for?
Francesca Piantadosi
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 9, 2022, at 5:18 PM, James McKane via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:
Actually, a large number of the Irish actually trace back to Scotland........... and in the 1840-60 era a number moved back to Scotland (and England as well) seeking work in the coal mines.
Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario
On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 8:13 PM Louise Marshall via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:
Hi Anjeannette
My husband has Moffitt in his line and whilst I thought they were all Irish they actually trace back to the Clan Moffat originally from the Scottish town of Moffat.
You could try the Clan Moffat website http://www.clanmoffat.org/
They also have a facebook group.
Hope this helps!
Happy searching
Louise Marshall
M: 0437 431 421
E: palm2425@gmail.com
From: AJ Staley via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Monday, 10 January 2022, 11:23
To: 'CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List'
Cc: 'Roger Cousens'; AJ Staley
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
Thanks Roger Cousens for the information on Griffith’s Valuation. I also have Moffits, Moffitts, Moffetts, Moffats, Moffatts in my line and have not been able to find the location in which they were from in Ireland. This gives me just a bit more of information that I can try to pin them down.
Appreciate the help given by ALL (Jim, Len and other) contributors to this group.
Sincerely,
Anjeannette Staley
From: Roger Cousens via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Sunday, January 9, 2022 3:41 PM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: Roger Cousens rcousens@unimelb.edu.au
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
The first publication of Griffith’s Valuation (searchable at http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/) can be just the start of an investigation. The valuations were revised every few years, making it possible to see when people moved in or out of a location. For anyone who has not tried it, after searching Griffith’s Valuation on the Askaboutireland database, it is worth then searching the revision books at https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/services/searching-valuation-revision-books This has told me, for example, when someone might have died, when they might have emigrated or when there was a new landlord. It can be hard-going at first finding the pages that you want (nowhere near as hard as searching for transcriptions of wills on Family Search!), but they are ordered by baronry and townland (the order is given at the front of each book) and each volume tends to retain the order of the previous revision.
There are some great guides on the web to the history of the valuation and the years that it took place. A good start is John Grenham’s summary at http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/history-heritage/irish-genealogy/what-is-griffiths-valuati/
For anyone interested in general history of the time at which the survey was conducted, there is also a fascinating PhD thesis on Griffith’s valuation at https://mural.maynoothuniversity.ie/7778/1/Smyth%202008.pdf
One of my biggest frustrations using the Askaboutireland database (and the censuses) is that they sometimes do not use the spelling of the townland name that we use now, or made an error, so it does not come up on a search (you cannot select “Include similar names” when searching for places). You need to be a bit imaginative and try different spellings, or search for the person (rather than a place) and then scroll through the pages of results – though of course the spellings of names are inconsistent because many people at the time were illiterate and the spelling was guessed (my Moffits, Moffitts,Moffetts, Moffats, Moffatts).
Regards
Roger Cousens
From: Len Swindley via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Friday, 7 January 2022 10:31 PM
To: cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: barry woolner barrywoolner@hotmail.com; Len Swindley len_swindley@hotmail.com
Subject: [EXT] [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
External email: Please exercise caution
Hello Barry,
My hard copy is dated 1858, but Griffiths was a compilation of several years prior to that.
Regards,
Len Swindley
From: barry woolner via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Friday, 7 January 2022 7:24 PM
To: cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: barry woolner barrywoolner@hotmail.com
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
Hi Jim/Len,
re the post on 31/12/2021- could you tell me what year this was please? Great site. Appreciate the work. Have a save and happy 2022. Barry
Index to Griffiths Valuation Camus Parish (Strabane), Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland
From: cotyronelist-request@list.cotyroneireland.com cotyronelist-request@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: 31 December 2021 16:30
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Subject: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
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Today's Topics:
1. New Content - Index to Griffiths Valuation Camus Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland
(James McKane)
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 07:36:13 -0500
From: James McKane jamckane@gmail.com
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] New Content - Index to Griffiths
Valuation Camus Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland
To: "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List"
cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
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Index to Griffiths Valuation Camus Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland
https://www.cotyroneireland.com/griffith/camus.html
Thanks again to Len Swindley for another HUGE addition to CTI!
Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario
Elwyn Soutter:
Thank you for the information I do appreciate it very much. I will follow up on it.
However, I do know that she went back to Ireland in 1906 to visit her father who was ailing at that time. I have found her return to the US as well. But will check. Anna originally came to the US when she was 15 (1875) as a seamstress and was indentured for 5 years to the person who sponsored her transportation.
I have seen the information on Ancestry, and also on FamilySearch, but with no documentation and have contacted the individual, but have not had much luck.
Sincerely,
Anjeannette Staley
elwynsoutter@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2022 2:12 PM
To: 'CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List' cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: AJ Staley ajstaley40@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
Anjeanette,
There are some trees on Ancestry that give Annie Jeanette Crawford’s birth as 22.12.1861 in Drumshanbo, Co. Leitrim. Have you investigated that? Birth registration didn’t start in Ireland till 1864 so for a birth before that you need to rely on church baptism records. Not all those records are on-line.
Griffiths Valuation c 1860 lists a Mark Crawford and a John Crawford both living in Drumshanbo Town. http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml
They appear to have been father & son. Mark died in 1873 aged 80. Informant was John.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1873/020687/7258398.pdf https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1873/020687/7258398.pdf
This looks to be John in the 1901 census:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Leitrim/Drumshanbo/Drumshanbo_Town/1483718/ http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Leitrim/Drumshanbo/Drumshanbo_Town/1483718/
That family were Methodist in 1901 though originally they’d have been Church of Ireland (it’s complicated but in short, Methodism took a long time to become established as a separate denomination in Ireland and some Methodists still used the Church of Ireland for baptisms and marriages till around 1870).
Drumshanbo Town is in the civil parish of Kiltoghert. The Church of Ireland records for that parish start in 1827. The originals are in the RCB library in Dublin. They are not on-line there and so you would need to go yourself or get a researcher to look them up. However the Rootsireland site has some years on its database, so you could try that. (Subscription site).
For Methodist records, you could try the Methodist Historical Society at Edgehill Theological College in Belfast. They were in the process of copying all surviving Methodist records in Ireland, and if they don’t have the Drumshanbo records, they may be able to advise who to contact. Many are still held by the local Minister. You could ask whoever has the records to look for Annie Jeanette’s birth/baptism. With a specific date that shouldn’t be too difficult. If there are no Methodist records for Drumshanbo, try the Church of Ireland instead.
https://methodisthistoryireland.org/irish-methodist-baptismal-and-marriage-records/ https://methodisthistoryireland.org/irish-methodist-baptismal-and-marriage-records/
John Crawford married Ann Jones in 1858, so if she was born in 1861, that fits reasonably well for them to be Annie Jeanette’s parents.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1858/09558/5465548.pdf https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1858/09558/5465548.pdf
Perhaps you have her parents names from her marriage or death certificate?
The only snag with all this is that Drumshanbo isn’t all that close to Co Tyrone, in Irish terms anyway. But I can only go by what someone has posted on their tree.
Hope this helps.
Elwyn
On Tuesday, 11 January 2022, 20:54:55 GMT, AJ Staley via CoTyroneList < mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:
Thanks to all who have given me such wonderful direction. Just to let you know here is my brick wall I am working on:
I have been stuck for a number of years on one Robert A. Moffatt Born 3 Oct 1853 in Ireland, could be from a place called Bellanean? But no proof of place, only hearsay. The A could stand for Alexander or possibly Anderson. Immigrated to the US in 1873 per 1900 census. Know that he married on 6 Feb 1881 in Leetonia, Columbiana, Ohio to Annie Jeannette Crawford also went by Anna J or Anna Jean). After a few years and they moved to Lawrence Co., Pennsylvania and lived in a couple of different towns there until his death in 1928
Robert had a brother Joseph Moffat that I found and a Sister Elizabeth that had also immigrated to the US.
Joseph was born about 1850 in Ireland and came a few years before as I found him working in Columbiana as a labor and in a family by the name of Digne who came from Ireland the mother and father and several of the children all born there, and a couple born in the United States. Joseph married one of the older girls in that family in Columbiana, Columbiana Co., Ohio. They later show up in New Castle, Lawrence Co., Pennsylvania census records and he died in 1896. According to the obituary found for Robert, Josephs son was a pall bearer for Robert when he died. It is the only clue that Joseph and Robert were brothers other than they both were in Columbiana, Columbiana Co., Ohio during one period of time.
Elizabeth was born 8 Jul 1861 in Tyrone, Ireland per her death notice. She married in 1890 New Castle, Lawrence Co., Pennsylvania. Her death was in 1920 and Robert is listed as her brother in the obituary. She did not immigrate to the US until 1887 or 1888 depending on which U S census you believe 1900 or 1920. Her obituary is the only one that lists her parent as William and Nancy Moffatt.
So, I will be looking in Tyrone and surrounding areas. As Roberts wife Anna Jeannette is said to have lived near where Robert lived in Ireland, but did not know him until she met him when visiting a cousin in Columbiana, Columbiana Co., Ohio.
Sorry for the long twisted story of the problem, but it may shed some light to someone else that has been down this trial.
Thanks again,
Anjeannette Staley
From: Francesca Piantadosi via CoTyroneList < mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 9:19 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List < mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Cc: Francesca Piantadosi < mailto:francescawrites@icloud.com francescawrites@icloud.com>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
I too have Moffats from my grandmother. I was able to find his birth certificate and a relative I didn’t know who lives in England. Which Moffatt are you looking for?
Francesca Piantadosi
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 9, 2022, at 5:18 PM, James McKane via CoTyroneList < mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:
Actually, a large number of the Irish actually trace back to Scotland........... and in the 1840-60 era a number moved back to Scotland (and England as well) seeking work in the coal mines.
Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario
On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 8:13 PM Louise Marshall via CoTyroneList < mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:
Hi Anjeannette
My husband has Moffitt in his line and whilst I thought they were all Irish they actually trace back to the Clan Moffat originally from the Scottish town of Moffat.
You could try the Clan Moffat website http://www.clanmoffat.org/ http://www.clanmoffat.org/
They also have a facebook group.
Hope this helps!
Happy searching
Louise Marshall
M: 0437 431 421
E: mailto:palm2425@gmail.com palm2425@gmail.com
From: AJ Staley via CoTyroneList < mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Sent: Monday, 10 January 2022, 11:23
To: 'CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List'
Cc: 'Roger Cousens'; AJ Staley
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
Thanks Roger Cousens for the information on Griffith’s Valuation. I also have Moffits, Moffitts, Moffetts, Moffats, Moffatts in my line and have not been able to find the location in which they were from in Ireland. This gives me just a bit more of information that I can try to pin them down.
Appreciate the help given by ALL (Jim, Len and other) contributors to this group.
Sincerely,
Anjeannette Staley
From: Roger Cousens via CoTyroneList < mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 9, 2022 3:41 PM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List < mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Cc: Roger Cousens < mailto:rcousens@unimelb.edu.au rcousens@unimelb.edu.au>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
The first publication of Griffith’s Valuation (searchable at http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/ http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/) can be just the start of an investigation. The valuations were revised every few years, making it possible to see when people moved in or out of a location. For anyone who has not tried it, after searching Griffith’s Valuation on the Askaboutireland database, it is worth then searching the revision books at https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/services/searching-valuation-revision-books https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/services/searching-valuation-revision-books This has told me, for example, when someone might have died, when they might have emigrated or when there was a new landlord. It can be hard-going at first finding the pages that you want (nowhere near as hard as searching for transcriptions of wills on Family Search!), but they are ordered by baronry and townland (the order is given at the front of each book) and each volume tends to retain the order of the previous revision.
There are some great guides on the web to the history of the valuation and the years that it took place. A good start is John Grenham’s summary at http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/history-heritage/irish-genealogy/what-is-griffiths-valuati/ http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/history-heritage/irish-genealogy/what-is-griffiths-valuati/
Also https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/img_auth.php/5/5a/Griffiths_Valuation_Records_D_Poffenberger.pdf https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/img_auth.php/5/5a/Griffiths_Valuation_Records_D_Poffenberger.pdf
For anyone interested in general history of the time at which the survey was conducted, there is also a fascinating PhD thesis on Griffith’s valuation at https://mural.maynoothuniversity.ie/7778/1/Smyth%202008.pdf https://mural.maynoothuniversity.ie/7778/1/Smyth%202008.pdf
One of my biggest frustrations using the Askaboutireland database (and the censuses) is that they sometimes do not use the spelling of the townland name that we use now, or made an error, so it does not come up on a search (you cannot select “Include similar names” when searching for places). You need to be a bit imaginative and try different spellings, or search for the person (rather than a place) and then scroll through the pages of results – though of course the spellings of names are inconsistent because many people at the time were illiterate and the spelling was guessed (my Moffits, Moffitts,Moffetts, Moffats, Moffatts).
Regards
Roger Cousens
From: Len Swindley via CoTyroneList < mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Sent: Friday, 7 January 2022 10:31 PM
To: mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: barry woolner < mailto:barrywoolner@hotmail.com barrywoolner@hotmail.com>; Len Swindley < mailto:len_swindley@hotmail.com len_swindley@hotmail.com>
Subject: [EXT] [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
External email: Please exercise caution
Hello Barry,
My hard copy is dated 1858, but Griffiths was a compilation of several years prior to that.
Regards,
Len Swindley
From: barry woolner via CoTyroneList < mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Sent: Friday, 7 January 2022 7:24 PM
To: mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com < mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Cc: barry woolner < mailto:barrywoolner@hotmail.com barrywoolner@hotmail.com>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
Hi Jim/Len,
re the post on 31/12/2021- could you tell me what year this was please? Great site. Appreciate the work. Have a save and happy 2022. Barry
Index to Griffiths Valuation Camus Parish (Strabane), Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland
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Sent: 31 December 2021 16:30
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Subject: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
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Today's Topics:
- New Content - Index to Griffiths Valuation Camus Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland
(James McKane)
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 07:36:13 -0500
From: James McKane < mailto:jamckane@gmail.com jamckane@gmail.com>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] New Content - Index to Griffiths
Valuation Camus Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland
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Index to Griffiths Valuation Camus Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland
< https://www.cotyroneireland.com/griffith/camus.html https://www.cotyroneireland.com/griffith/camus.html>
Thanks again to Len Swindley for another HUGE addition to CTI!
Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario
On his death certificate it says that Robert’s father was born in Scotland…… but that his mother Elizabeth was born in Ireland.
Bellanean is not a townland, which is always a good place to start. There is a Bellaheen in Co. Waterford, Ballaheen in Cork, Ballaghneed in Tyrone, Bellaneeny in Roscommon, but there were no Moffatts living in any of those at the time of Griffith’s Valuation. In fact a search of Griffith’s for Moffatts in any of those counties (and Leitrim) shows very few Moffatts.
Roger
From: AJ Staley via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Wednesday, 12 January 2022 11:42 AM
To: 'Elwyn Soutter' elwynsoutter@yahoo.co.uk; 'CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List' cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: AJ Staley ajstaley40@gmail.com
Subject: [EXT] [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
External email: Please exercise caution
Elwyn Soutter:
Thank you for the information I do appreciate it very much. I will follow up on it.
However, I do know that she went back to Ireland in 1906 to visit her father who was ailing at that time. I have found her return to the US as well. But will check. Anna originally came to the US when she was 15 (1875) as a seamstress and was indentured for 5 years to the person who sponsored her transportation.
I have seen the information on Ancestry, and also on FamilySearch, but with no documentation and have contacted the individual, but have not had much luck.
Sincerely,
Anjeannette Staley
<elwynsoutter@yahoo.co.ukmailto:elwynsoutter@yahoo.co.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2022 2:12 PM
To: 'CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List' <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Cc: AJ Staley <ajstaley40@gmail.commailto:ajstaley40@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
Anjeanette,
There are some trees on Ancestry that give Annie Jeanette Crawford’s birth as 22.12.1861 in Drumshanbo, Co. Leitrim. Have you investigated that? Birth registration didn’t start in Ireland till 1864 so for a birth before that you need to rely on church baptism records. Not all those records are on-line.
Griffiths Valuation c 1860 lists a Mark Crawford and a John Crawford both living in Drumshanbo Town. http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xmlhttp://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml
They appear to have been father & son. Mark died in 1873 aged 80. Informant was John.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1873/020687/7258398.pdfhttps://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1873/020687/7258398.pdf
This looks to be John in the 1901 census:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Leitrim/Drumshanbo/Drumshanbo_Town/1483718/http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Leitrim/Drumshanbo/Drumshanbo_Town/1483718/
That family were Methodist in 1901 though originally they’d have been Church of Ireland (it’s complicated but in short, Methodism took a long time to become established as a separate denomination in Ireland and some Methodists still used the Church of Ireland for baptisms and marriages till around 1870).
Drumshanbo Town is in the civil parish of Kiltoghert. The Church of Ireland records for that parish start in 1827. The originals are in the RCB library in Dublin. They are not on-line there and so you would need to go yourself or get a researcher to look them up. However the Rootsireland site has some years on its database, so you could try that. (Subscription site).
For Methodist records, you could try the Methodist Historical Society at Edgehill Theological College in Belfast. They were in the process of copying all surviving Methodist records in Ireland, and if they don’t have the Drumshanbo records, they may be able to advise who to contact. Many are still held by the local Minister. You could ask whoever has the records to look for Annie Jeanette’s birth/baptism. With a specific date that shouldn’t be too difficult. If there are no Methodist records for Drumshanbo, try the Church of Ireland instead.
https://methodisthistoryireland.org/irish-methodist-baptismal-and-marriage-records/https://methodisthistoryireland.org/irish-methodist-baptismal-and-marriage-records/
John Crawford married Ann Jones in 1858, so if she was born in 1861, that fits reasonably well for them to be Annie Jeanette’s parents.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1858/09558/5465548.pdfhttps://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1858/09558/5465548.pdf
Perhaps you have her parents names from her marriage or death certificate?
The only snag with all this is that Drumshanbo isn’t all that close to Co Tyrone, in Irish terms anyway. But I can only go by what someone has posted on their tree.
Hope this helps.
Elwyn
On Tuesday, 11 January 2022, 20:54:55 GMT, AJ Staley via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:
Thanks to all who have given me such wonderful direction. Just to let you know here is my brick wall I am working on:
I have been stuck for a number of years on one Robert A. Moffatt Born 3 Oct 1853 in Ireland, could be from a place called Bellanean? But no proof of place, only hearsay. The A could stand for Alexander or possibly Anderson. Immigrated to the US in 1873 per 1900 census. Know that he married on 6 Feb 1881 in Leetonia, Columbiana, Ohio to Annie Jeannette Crawford also went by Anna J or Anna Jean). After a few years and they moved to Lawrence Co., Pennsylvania and lived in a couple of different towns there until his death in 1928
Robert had a brother Joseph Moffat that I found and a Sister Elizabeth that had also immigrated to the US.
Joseph was born about 1850 in Ireland and came a few years before as I found him working in Columbiana as a labor and in a family by the name of Digne who came from Ireland the mother and father and several of the children all born there, and a couple born in the United States. Joseph married one of the older girls in that family in Columbiana, Columbiana Co., Ohio. They later show up in New Castle, Lawrence Co., Pennsylvania census records and he died in 1896. According to the obituary found for Robert, Josephs son was a pall bearer for Robert when he died. It is the only clue that Joseph and Robert were brothers other than they both were in Columbiana, Columbiana Co., Ohio during one period of time.
Elizabeth was born 8 Jul 1861 in Tyrone, Ireland per her death notice. She married in 1890 New Castle, Lawrence Co., Pennsylvania. Her death was in 1920 and Robert is listed as her brother in the obituary. She did not immigrate to the US until 1887 or 1888 depending on which U S census you believe 1900 or 1920. Her obituary is the only one that lists her parent as William and Nancy Moffatt.
So, I will be looking in Tyrone and surrounding areas. As Roberts wife Anna Jeannette is said to have lived near where Robert lived in Ireland, but did not know him until she met him when visiting a cousin in Columbiana, Columbiana Co., Ohio.
Sorry for the long twisted story of the problem, but it may shed some light to someone else that has been down this trial.
Thanks again,
Anjeannette Staley
From: Francesca Piantadosi via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 9:19 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Cc: Francesca Piantadosi <francescawrites@icloud.commailto:francescawrites@icloud.com>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
I too have Moffats from my grandmother. I was able to find his birth certificate and a relative I didn’t know who lives in England. Which Moffatt are you looking for?
Francesca Piantadosi
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 9, 2022, at 5:18 PM, James McKane via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:
Actually, a large number of the Irish actually trace back to Scotland........... and in the 1840-60 era a number moved back to Scotland (and England as well) seeking work in the coal mines.
Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario
On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 8:13 PM Louise Marshall via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:
Hi Anjeannette
My husband has Moffitt in his line and whilst I thought they were all Irish they actually trace back to the Clan Moffat originally from the Scottish town of Moffat.
You could try the Clan Moffat website http://www.clanmoffat.org/http://www.clanmoffat.org/
They also have a facebook group.
Hope this helps!
Happy searching
Louise Marshall
M: 0437 431 421
E: palm2425@gmail.commailto:palm2425@gmail.com
From: AJ Staley via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Sent: Monday, 10 January 2022, 11:23
To: 'CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List'
Cc: 'Roger Cousens'; AJ Staley
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
Thanks Roger Cousens for the information on Griffith’s Valuation. I also have Moffits, Moffitts, Moffetts, Moffats, Moffatts in my line and have not been able to find the location in which they were from in Ireland. This gives me just a bit more of information that I can try to pin them down.
Appreciate the help given by ALL (Jim, Len and other) contributors to this group.
Sincerely,
Anjeannette Staley
From: Roger Cousens via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 9, 2022 3:41 PM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Cc: Roger Cousens <rcousens@unimelb.edu.aumailto:rcousens@unimelb.edu.au>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
The first publication of Griffith’s Valuation (searchable at http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/) can be just the start of an investigation. The valuations were revised every few years, making it possible to see when people moved in or out of a location. For anyone who has not tried it, after searching Griffith’s Valuation on the Askaboutireland database, it is worth then searching the revision books at https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/services/searching-valuation-revision-bookshttps://www.nidirect.gov.uk/services/searching-valuation-revision-books This has told me, for example, when someone might have died, when they might have emigrated or when there was a new landlord. It can be hard-going at first finding the pages that you want (nowhere near as hard as searching for transcriptions of wills on Family Search!), but they are ordered by baronry and townland (the order is given at the front of each book) and each volume tends to retain the order of the previous revision.
There are some great guides on the web to the history of the valuation and the years that it took place. A good start is John Grenham’s summary at http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/history-heritage/irish-genealogy/what-is-griffiths-valuati/http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/history-heritage/irish-genealogy/what-is-griffiths-valuati/
Also https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/img_auth.php/5/5a/Griffiths_Valuation_Records_D_Poffenberger.pdfhttps://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/img_auth.php/5/5a/Griffiths_Valuation_Records_D_Poffenberger.pdf
For anyone interested in general history of the time at which the survey was conducted, there is also a fascinating PhD thesis on Griffith’s valuation at https://mural.maynoothuniversity.ie/7778/1/Smyth%202008.pdfhttps://mural.maynoothuniversity.ie/7778/1/Smyth%202008.pdf
One of my biggest frustrations using the Askaboutireland database (and the censuses) is that they sometimes do not use the spelling of the townland name that we use now, or made an error, so it does not come up on a search (you cannot select “Include similar names” when searching for places). You need to be a bit imaginative and try different spellings, or search for the person (rather than a place) and then scroll through the pages of results – though of course the spellings of names are inconsistent because many people at the time were illiterate and the spelling was guessed (my Moffits, Moffitts,Moffetts, Moffats, Moffatts).
Regards
Roger Cousens
From: Len Swindley via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Sent: Friday, 7 January 2022 10:31 PM
To: cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: barry woolner <barrywoolner@hotmail.commailto:barrywoolner@hotmail.com>; Len Swindley <len_swindley@hotmail.commailto:len_swindley@hotmail.com>
Subject: [EXT] [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
External email: Please exercise caution
Hello Barry,
My hard copy is dated 1858, but Griffiths was a compilation of several years prior to that.
Regards,
Len Swindley
From: barry woolner via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Sent: Friday, 7 January 2022 7:24 PM
To: cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Cc: barry woolner <barrywoolner@hotmail.commailto:barrywoolner@hotmail.com>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
Hi Jim/Len,
re the post on 31/12/2021- could you tell me what year this was please? Great site. Appreciate the work. Have a save and happy 2022. Barry
Index to Griffiths Valuation Camus Parish (Strabane), Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland
From: cotyronelist-request@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist-request@list.cotyroneireland.com <cotyronelist-request@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist-request@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Sent: 31 December 2021 16:30
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Subject: CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 953, Issue 1
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Today's Topics:
- New Content - Index to Griffiths Valuation Camus Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland
(James McKane)
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 07:36:13 -0500
From: James McKane <jamckane@gmail.commailto:jamckane@gmail.com>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] New Content - Index to Griffiths
Valuation Camus Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland
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Index to Griffiths Valuation Camus Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland
<https://www.cotyroneireland.com/griffith/camus.htmlhttps://www.cotyroneireland.com/griffith/camus.html>
Thanks again to Len Swindley for another HUGE addition to CTI!
Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario
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Anjeannette,
Before you go to Ireland you should thoroughly search the internet.
I have found on cotyrone.com
Dungannon Marriage Regn. No. 17, 8 May 1846 - Andrew MOFFATT 20 b. labourer Glencon - father William MOFFATT farmer to Nancy ANDERSON 21, of Glencon - father John ANDERSON farmer - witnesses Thomas Anderson & James Rice (this entry seems to have lots of the names you have mentioned)
There is also a marriage of a George Moffatt son of William.
At the time of Griffiths Valuation in Tyrone about 1850s, there were only 3 Moffatts in Tyrone, John, Matthew & Henry. I can’t get through to the website to find which townland they were from but this does indicate there weren’t many Moffatts there.
There were however, 15 “William Moffett”s.
I would suggest you search at https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch and see what you can find. Obviously the spelling of the name doesn’t matter - just the pronounciation.
Don’t forget that the least reliable information is that contained on death certificates and obituaries.
Happy hunting,
Margaret in Oz.
Those same marriage is on OUR site as Len Swindley provided -
https://cotyroneireland.com/marriages/dungannon2.html
Please continue to support CoTyroneIreland.com
Thanks
Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario
On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 8:45 PM Margaret Barnes via CoTyroneList <
cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:
Anjeannette,
Before you go to Ireland you should thoroughly search the internet.
I have found on cotyrone.com
Dungannon Marriage Regn. No. 17, 8 May 1846 - Andrew MOFFATT 20 b.
labourer Glencon - father William MOFFATT farmer to Nancy ANDERSON 21, of
Glencon - father John ANDERSON farmer - witnesses Thomas Anderson & James
Rice (this entry seems to have lots of the names you have mentioned)
There is also a marriage of a George Moffatt son of William.
At the time of Griffiths Valuation in Tyrone about 1850s, there were only
3 Moffatts in Tyrone, John, Matthew & Henry. I can’t get through to the
website to find which townland they were from but this does indicate there
weren’t many Moffatts there.
There were however, 15 “William Moffett”s.
I would suggest you search at
https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch
and see what you can find. Obviously the spelling of the name doesn’t
matter - just the pronounciation.
Don’t forget that the least reliable information is that contained on
death certificates and obituaries.
Happy hunting,
Margaret in Oz.
Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
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Thank you Jim. I will check cotyroneireland.com for all.
Anjeannette Staley
Diamond Bar, California
From: James McKane via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 2:13 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: James McKane jamckane@gmail.com
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: Moffatt
Those same marriage is on OUR site as Len Swindley provided - https://cotyroneireland.com/marriages/dungannon2.html
Please continue to support CoTyroneIreland.com
Thanks
Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario
On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 8:45 PM Margaret Barnes via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com > wrote:
Anjeannette,
Before you go to Ireland you should thoroughly search the internet.
I have found on cotyrone.com http://cotyrone.com
Dungannon Marriage Regn. No. 17, 8 May 1846 - Andrew MOFFATT 20 b. labourer Glencon - father William MOFFATT farmer to Nancy ANDERSON 21, of Glencon - father John ANDERSON farmer - witnesses Thomas Anderson & James Rice (this entry seems to have lots of the names you have mentioned)
There is also a marriage of a George Moffatt son of William.
At the time of Griffiths Valuation in Tyrone about 1850s, there were only 3 Moffatts in Tyrone, John, Matthew & Henry. I can’t get through to the website to find which townland they were from but this does indicate there weren’t many Moffatts there.
There were however, 15 “William Moffett”s.
I would suggest you search at https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch and see what you can find. Obviously the spelling of the name doesn’t matter - just the pronounciation.
Don’t forget that the least reliable information is that contained on death certificates and obituaries.
Happy hunting,
Margaret in Oz.
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