Empathy List Archives

G

genealogyforever54@gmail.com

Sun, Mar 10, 2024 3:32 AM

Hello list, this is my first posting with you. I am very keen to place my 2 x great grandfather, John White, in his correct family tree. Information about his origins is scanty. There is a death registration, but I am sceptical about some of the facts, particularly the name of his father and mother, and his age. He claimed he was 23 when he married. Family history says he immigrated to Victoria, Australia as a ‘very young man’. He then travelled to Dunedin, New Zealand and married in a presbyterian church 1865 to Mary Nelan (or Neilon, or Nellin etc). Mary could have been a young Catholic woman from Kerry, or maybe Clare. Throughout his life, he was a miner for gold, and worked in a paper mill, and transporting stone. He and Mary had 12 children, 11 of them married and also had large families. Among the childrens’ names were Prudence and Dinah. Twins occurred in their families for a few generations. John White appears to have been an elder in the Presbyterian church. There are many John Whites in passenger lists, and I have not been able to place him as yet.

DNA came along, and I found strong matches to people in Pennsylvania US called Tease. I found familiy trees with Prudence and Dinah, and twins. It looks like John White may belong in these families. They are documented with death certs that point to origins in Calhame, Letterkenny, Donegal. They are all Presbyterian. I produced a possible family tree with a Prudence White marrying John Tease, and her sister Dinah marrying Samuel Tease. their parents were James White and Hannah Galley. I found death records for them.

I need to find baptismal records in this area - however a researcher I employed could not find a possible birth for a John White with these parents. He could be a cousin, and I considered the possibility of John being an illigitamate child of the family. Can anyone help me with directions to Presbyterian archives? I can’t find any records in roots.ie.

Best wishes, Louise in Perth, Australia

Hello list, this is my first posting with you. I am very keen to place my 2 x great grandfather, John White, in his correct family tree. Information about his origins is scanty. There is a death registration, but I am sceptical about some of the facts, particularly the name of his father and mother, and his age. He claimed he was 23 when he married. Family history says he immigrated to Victoria, Australia as a ‘very young man’. He then travelled to Dunedin, New Zealand and married in a presbyterian church 1865 to Mary Nelan (or Neilon, or Nellin etc). Mary could have been a young Catholic woman from Kerry, or maybe Clare. Throughout his life, he was a miner for gold, and worked in a paper mill, and transporting stone. He and Mary had 12 children, 11 of them married and also had large families. Among the childrens’ names were Prudence and Dinah. Twins occurred in their families for a few generations. John White appears to have been an elder in the Presbyterian church. There are many John Whites in passenger lists, and I have not been able to place him as yet. DNA came along, and I found strong matches to people in Pennsylvania US called Tease. I found familiy trees with Prudence and Dinah, and twins. It looks like John White may belong in these families. They are documented with death certs that point to origins in Calhame, Letterkenny, Donegal. They are all Presbyterian. I produced a possible family tree with a Prudence White marrying John Tease, and her sister Dinah marrying Samuel Tease. their parents were James White and Hannah Galley. I found death records for them. I need to find baptismal records in this area - however a researcher I employed could not find a possible birth for a John White with these parents. He could be a cousin, and I considered the possibility of John being an illigitamate child of the family. Can anyone help me with directions to Presbyterian archives? I can’t find any records in roots.ie. Best wishes, Louise in Perth, Australia

ES

Elwyn Soutter

Sun, Mar 10, 2024 5:39 AM

Louise,

The most comprehensive set of Presbyterian records for Ulster are held in PRONI in Belfast. None of the PRONI collection are on-line and a personal visit is required to view them. Some Presbyterian records are on some of the pay to view sites but many have never been put on-line. So if you can’t find the family on rootsireland then PRONI is probably your best bet. The PRONI catalogue is on-line and you can see what churches exist and what years the records cover.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/guide-church-records

There are 2 townlands called Calhame near Letterkenny. One is in the parish of Leck the other in Conwal. In Leck there is Leckpatrick Presbyterian church with baptism records starting in 1838, also 2nd Strabane with records from 1844. In Conwal, Letterkenny 1stt and Letterkenny 2nd both have records from 1821. Letterkenny 3rd start in 1841 and Trenta in 1836. Copies of all these records are in PRONI.

Obviously if yours are the Leck family then there are no records for the years you probably need. If you widen your search, there are quite a lot of Presbyterian churches in Derry and Donegal, so potentially quite a few to work through, and not all have records for baptisms in the 1830s.

The 1831 census of Co Derry has survived:

National Archives: Census of Ireland 1911https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

If you search it you will find that there were Presbyterian households headed by a John or Jno White in the following parishes: Aghadowey, Balteagh, Kilcornaghan, Upper Comber & Kenaught. So you could start with them. The Donegal 1831 census did not survive and so there you might just have to work through every Presbyterian church in the county.

Most farmers should be listed in the tithe applotment records (they were a tax on land). The records can be found here:

The Tithe Applotment Books, 1823-37 (nationalarchives.ie)https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp

Searching for John White in Donegal I found them in Clonleigh, Donagh, Kilmacrenan and Urney (Urney parish is actually partially in Tyrone as well as Donegal. It straddles the county borders). Not every parishes tithes in Donegal have survived though and so there might have been others that are lost. And the tithes don’t tell you what denomination they were.

As far as Presbyterians in Donegal are concerned, they are mostly in the eastern half of the county. As you probably know they are descendants of Scots who settled in the area in the 1600s. The better farming land is in the east of the county so they mostly headed for that.

Death registration started in Ireland in 1864. I searched 1864 – 1901 for Hannah White. I did not find a single one in Co Derry. There were 2 of the right age in Co Donegal. One was in 1881 aged 85 in the Letterkenny registration area. However she was married to a James White. The other was in 1870 aged 75 in Donegal Town. However that year is not free to view yet and so you would need to order a copy of the certificate to find the details. If that’s not her then your Hannah probably died before 1864. Making her hard to trace. (Presbyterians generally didn’t bother with burial records by the way).

Elwyn

From: Louise Clarkson via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: 10 March 2024 3:32 AM
To: cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: genealogyforever54@gmail.com genealogyforever54@gmail.com
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Looking for the White family in and around Carnatrentagh

Hello list, this is my first posting with you. I am very keen to place my 2 x great grandfather, John White, in his correct family tree. Information about his origins is scanty. There is a death registration, but I am sceptical about some of the facts, particularly the name of his father and mother, and his age. He claimed he was 23 when he married. Family history says he immigrated to Victoria, Australia as a ‘very young man’. He then travelled to Dunedin, New Zealand and married in a presbyterian church 1865 to Mary Nelan (or Neilon, or Nellin etc). Mary could have been a young Catholic woman from Kerry, or maybe Clare. Throughout his life, he was a miner for gold, and worked in a paper mill, and transporting stone. He and Mary had 12 children, 11 of them married and also had large families. Among the childrens’ names were Prudence and Dinah. Twins occurred in their families for a few generations. John White appears to have been an elder in the Presbyterian church. There are many John Whites in passenger lists, and I have not been able to place him as yet.

DNA came along, and I found strong matches to people in Pennsylvania US called Tease. I found familiy trees with Prudence and Dinah, and twins. It looks like John White may belong in these families. They are documented with death certs that point to origins in Calhame, Letterkenny, Donegal. They are all Presbyterian. I produced a possible family tree with a Prudence White marrying John Tease, and her sister Dinah marrying Samuel Tease. their parents were James White and Hannah Galley. I found death records for them.

I need to find baptismal records in this area - however a researcher I employed could not find a possible birth for a John White with these parents. He could be a cousin, and I considered the possibility of John being an illigitamate child of the family. Can anyone help me with directions to Presbyterian archives? I can’t find any records in roots.ie.

Best wishes, Louise in Perth, Australia

Louise, The most comprehensive set of Presbyterian records for Ulster are held in PRONI in Belfast. None of the PRONI collection are on-line and a personal visit is required to view them. Some Presbyterian records are on some of the pay to view sites but many have never been put on-line. So if you can’t find the family on rootsireland then PRONI is probably your best bet. The PRONI catalogue is on-line and you can see what churches exist and what years the records cover. https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/guide-church-records There are 2 townlands called Calhame near Letterkenny. One is in the parish of Leck the other in Conwal. In Leck there is Leckpatrick Presbyterian church with baptism records starting in 1838, also 2nd Strabane with records from 1844. In Conwal, Letterkenny 1stt and Letterkenny 2nd both have records from 1821. Letterkenny 3rd start in 1841 and Trenta in 1836. Copies of all these records are in PRONI. Obviously if yours are the Leck family then there are no records for the years you probably need. If you widen your search, there are quite a lot of Presbyterian churches in Derry and Donegal, so potentially quite a few to work through, and not all have records for baptisms in the 1830s. The 1831 census of Co Derry has survived: National Archives: Census of Ireland 1911<https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/> If you search it you will find that there were Presbyterian households headed by a John or Jno White in the following parishes: Aghadowey, Balteagh, Kilcornaghan, Upper Comber & Kenaught. So you could start with them. The Donegal 1831 census did not survive and so there you might just have to work through every Presbyterian church in the county. Most farmers should be listed in the tithe applotment records (they were a tax on land). The records can be found here: The Tithe Applotment Books, 1823-37 (nationalarchives.ie)<https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp> Searching for John White in Donegal I found them in Clonleigh, Donagh, Kilmacrenan and Urney (Urney parish is actually partially in Tyrone as well as Donegal. It straddles the county borders). Not every parishes tithes in Donegal have survived though and so there might have been others that are lost. And the tithes don’t tell you what denomination they were. As far as Presbyterians in Donegal are concerned, they are mostly in the eastern half of the county. As you probably know they are descendants of Scots who settled in the area in the 1600s. The better farming land is in the east of the county so they mostly headed for that. Death registration started in Ireland in 1864. I searched 1864 – 1901 for Hannah White. I did not find a single one in Co Derry. There were 2 of the right age in Co Donegal. One was in 1881 aged 85 in the Letterkenny registration area. However she was married to a James White. The other was in 1870 aged 75 in Donegal Town. However that year is not free to view yet and so you would need to order a copy of the certificate to find the details. If that’s not her then your Hannah probably died before 1864. Making her hard to trace. (Presbyterians generally didn’t bother with burial records by the way). Elwyn ________________________________ From: Louise Clarkson via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> Sent: 10 March 2024 3:32 AM To: cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> Cc: genealogyforever54@gmail.com <genealogyforever54@gmail.com> Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Looking for the White family in and around Carnatrentagh Hello list, this is my first posting with you. I am very keen to place my 2 x great grandfather, John White, in his correct family tree. Information about his origins is scanty. There is a death registration, but I am sceptical about some of the facts, particularly the name of his father and mother, and his age. He claimed he was 23 when he married. Family history says he immigrated to Victoria, Australia as a ‘very young man’. He then travelled to Dunedin, New Zealand and married in a presbyterian church 1865 to Mary Nelan (or Neilon, or Nellin etc). Mary could have been a young Catholic woman from Kerry, or maybe Clare. Throughout his life, he was a miner for gold, and worked in a paper mill, and transporting stone. He and Mary had 12 children, 11 of them married and also had large families. Among the childrens’ names were Prudence and Dinah. Twins occurred in their families for a few generations. John White appears to have been an elder in the Presbyterian church. There are many John Whites in passenger lists, and I have not been able to place him as yet. DNA came along, and I found strong matches to people in Pennsylvania US called Tease. I found familiy trees with Prudence and Dinah, and twins. It looks like John White may belong in these families. They are documented with death certs that point to origins in Calhame, Letterkenny, Donegal. They are all Presbyterian. I produced a possible family tree with a Prudence White marrying John Tease, and her sister Dinah marrying Samuel Tease. their parents were James White and Hannah Galley. I found death records for them. I need to find baptismal records in this area - however a researcher I employed could not find a possible birth for a John White with these parents. He could be a cousin, and I considered the possibility of John being an illigitamate child of the family. Can anyone help me with directions to Presbyterian archives? I can’t find any records in roots.ie. Best wishes, Louise in Perth, Australia

CO

Chris Owen

Sun, Mar 10, 2024 5:58 AM

Sorry Louise as a fellow Aussie in Victoria, I can offer NOTHING! However your comprehensive request struck me as so well constructed. So great job!

But most of all it demonstrates how hard it is for Aussies and Kiwis (our New Zealand neighbours across the water) to get close to difficult Irish records. The Americans are much closer and more likely to be able to head off to Ireland at some point. I think if they had 20-30 hour flights to reach Ireland like we do, there’d be much less visiting!!!! It’s bloody hard from here!

But then along comes Elwyn with the most extraordinarily array of deeply knowledgable answers and fabulous help for you Louise! Apart from the somewhat disappointing news that you need to visit PRONI in person for the best chances of info!

I just wanted to say BRAVO Louise and BRAVO Elwyn!

A long time ago I was on the CoTyIre list and left. On rediscovering it in the last few months I am struck by how many million times better it is these days! So thanks to those who put in the hard yards for us poor lost souls so far away. And there are some very generous volunteers on this site

I thank you most sincerely! But jokingly also bow in your general direction! That would work wouldn’t it? If I bowed West-Nor-West? But seriously you really are stars!

Again thanks
Chris Owen
Melbourne Australia

On 10 Mar 2024, at 16:39, Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:

Louise,

The most comprehensive set of Presbyterian records for Ulster are held in PRONI in Belfast. None of the PRONI collection are on-line and a personal visit is required to view them. Some Presbyterian records are on some of the pay to view sites but many have never been put on-line. So if you can’t find the family on rootsireland then PRONI is probably your best bet. The PRONI catalogue is on-line and you can see what churches exist and what years the records cover.
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/guide-church-records

There are 2 townlands called Calhame near Letterkenny. One is in the parish of Leck the other in Conwal. In Leck there is Leckpatrick Presbyterian church with baptism records starting in 1838, also 2nd Strabane with records from 1844. In Conwal, Letterkenny 1stt and Letterkenny 2nd both have records from 1821. Letterkenny 3rd start in 1841 and Trenta in 1836. Copies of all these records are in PRONI.

Obviously if yours are the Leck family then there are no records for the years you probably need. If you widen your search, there are quite a lot of Presbyterian churches in Derry and Donegal, so potentially quite a few to work through, and not all have records for baptisms in the 1830s.

The 1831 census of Co Derry has survived:

National Archives: Census of Ireland 1911 https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
If you search it you will find that there were Presbyterian households headed by a John or Jno White in the following parishes: Aghadowey, Balteagh, Kilcornaghan, Upper Comber & Kenaught. So you could start with them. The Donegal 1831 census did not survive and so there you might just have to work through every Presbyterian church in the county.

Most farmers should be listed in the tithe applotment records (they were a tax on land). The records can be found here:

The Tithe Applotment Books, 1823-37 (nationalarchives.ie) https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp
Searching for John White in Donegal I found them in Clonleigh, Donagh, Kilmacrenan and Urney (Urney parish is actually partially in Tyrone as well as Donegal. It straddles the county borders). Not every parishes tithes in Donegal have survived though and so there might have been others that are lost. And the tithes don’t tell you what denomination they were.

As far as Presbyterians in Donegal are concerned, they are mostly in the eastern half of the county. As you probably know they are descendants of Scots who settled in the area in the 1600s. The better farming land is in the east of the county so they mostly headed for that.

Death registration started in Ireland in 1864. I searched 1864 – 1901 for Hannah White. I did not find a single one in Co Derry. There were 2 of the right age in Co Donegal. One was in 1881 aged 85 in the Letterkenny registration area. However she was married to a James White. The other was in 1870 aged 75 in Donegal Town. However that year is not free to view yet and so you would need to order a copy of the certificate to find the details. If that’s not her then your Hannah probably died before 1864. Making her hard to trace. (Presbyterians generally didn’t bother with burial records by the way).

Elwyn

From: Louise Clarkson via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Sent: 10 March 2024 3:32 AM
To: cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Cc: genealogyforever54@gmail.com mailto:genealogyforever54@gmail.com <genealogyforever54@gmail.com mailto:genealogyforever54@gmail.com>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Looking for the White family in and around Carnatrentagh

Hello list, this is my first posting with you. I am very keen to place my 2 x great grandfather, John White, in his correct family tree. Information about his origins is scanty. There is a death registration, but I am sceptical about some of the facts, particularly the name of his father and mother, and his age. He claimed he was 23 when he married. Family history says he immigrated to Victoria, Australia as a ‘very young man’. He then travelled to Dunedin, New Zealand and married in a presbyterian church 1865 to Mary Nelan (or Neilon, or Nellin etc). Mary could have been a young Catholic woman from Kerry, or maybe Clare. Throughout his life, he was a miner for gold, and worked in a paper mill, and transporting stone. He and Mary had 12 children, 11 of them married and also had large families. Among the childrens’ names were Prudence and Dinah. Twins occurred in their families for a few generations. John White appears to have been an elder in the Presbyterian church. There are many John Whites in passenger lists, and I have not been able to place him as yet.
DNA came along, and I found strong matches to people in Pennsylvania US called Tease. I found familiy trees with Prudence and Dinah, and twins. It looks like John White may belong in these families. They are documented with death certs that point to origins in Calhame, Letterkenny, Donegal. They are all Presbyterian. I produced a possible family tree with a Prudence White marrying John Tease, and her sister Dinah marrying Samuel Tease. their parents were James White and Hannah Galley. I found death records for them.
I need to find baptismal records in this area - however a researcher I employed could not find a possible birth for a John White with these parents. He could be a cousin, and I considered the possibility of John being an illigitamate child of the family. Can anyone help me with directions to Presbyterian archives? I can’t find any records in roots.ie http://roots.ie/.
Best wishes, Louise in Perth, Australia

Sorry Louise as a fellow Aussie in Victoria, I can offer NOTHING! However your comprehensive request struck me as so well constructed. So great job! But most of all it demonstrates how hard it is for Aussies and Kiwis (our New Zealand neighbours across the water) to get close to difficult Irish records. The Americans are much closer and more likely to be able to head off to Ireland at some point. I think if they had 20-30 hour flights to reach Ireland like we do, there’d be much less visiting!!!! It’s bloody hard from here! But then along comes Elwyn with the most extraordinarily array of deeply knowledgable answers and fabulous help for you Louise! Apart from the somewhat disappointing news that you need to visit PRONI in person for the best chances of info! I just wanted to say BRAVO Louise and BRAVO Elwyn! A long time ago I was on the CoTyIre list and left. On rediscovering it in the last few months I am struck by how many million times better it is these days! So thanks to those who put in the hard yards for us poor lost souls so far away. And there are some very generous volunteers on this site I thank you most sincerely! But jokingly also bow in your general direction! That would work wouldn’t it? If I bowed West-Nor-West? But seriously you really are stars! Again thanks Chris Owen Melbourne Australia > On 10 Mar 2024, at 16:39, Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > > Louise, > > The most comprehensive set of Presbyterian records for Ulster are held in PRONI in Belfast. None of the PRONI collection are on-line and a personal visit is required to view them. Some Presbyterian records are on some of the pay to view sites but many have never been put on-line. So if you can’t find the family on rootsireland then PRONI is probably your best bet. The PRONI catalogue is on-line and you can see what churches exist and what years the records cover. > https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/guide-church-records > > There are 2 townlands called Calhame near Letterkenny. One is in the parish of Leck the other in Conwal. In Leck there is Leckpatrick Presbyterian church with baptism records starting in 1838, also 2nd Strabane with records from 1844. In Conwal, Letterkenny 1stt and Letterkenny 2nd both have records from 1821. Letterkenny 3rd start in 1841 and Trenta in 1836. Copies of all these records are in PRONI. > > Obviously if yours are the Leck family then there are no records for the years you probably need. If you widen your search, there are quite a lot of Presbyterian churches in Derry and Donegal, so potentially quite a few to work through, and not all have records for baptisms in the 1830s. > > The 1831 census of Co Derry has survived: > > National Archives: Census of Ireland 1911 <https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/> > If you search it you will find that there were Presbyterian households headed by a John or Jno White in the following parishes: Aghadowey, Balteagh, Kilcornaghan, Upper Comber & Kenaught. So you could start with them. The Donegal 1831 census did not survive and so there you might just have to work through every Presbyterian church in the county. > > Most farmers should be listed in the tithe applotment records (they were a tax on land). The records can be found here: > > The Tithe Applotment Books, 1823-37 (nationalarchives.ie) <https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp> > Searching for John White in Donegal I found them in Clonleigh, Donagh, Kilmacrenan and Urney (Urney parish is actually partially in Tyrone as well as Donegal. It straddles the county borders). Not every parishes tithes in Donegal have survived though and so there might have been others that are lost. And the tithes don’t tell you what denomination they were. > > As far as Presbyterians in Donegal are concerned, they are mostly in the eastern half of the county. As you probably know they are descendants of Scots who settled in the area in the 1600s. The better farming land is in the east of the county so they mostly headed for that. > > Death registration started in Ireland in 1864. I searched 1864 – 1901 for Hannah White. I did not find a single one in Co Derry. There were 2 of the right age in Co Donegal. One was in 1881 aged 85 in the Letterkenny registration area. However she was married to a James White. The other was in 1870 aged 75 in Donegal Town. However that year is not free to view yet and so you would need to order a copy of the certificate to find the details. If that’s not her then your Hannah probably died before 1864. Making her hard to trace. (Presbyterians generally didn’t bother with burial records by the way). > > > Elwyn > > > From: Louise Clarkson via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com <mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>> > Sent: 10 March 2024 3:32 AM > To: cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com <mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com <mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>> > Cc: genealogyforever54@gmail.com <mailto:genealogyforever54@gmail.com> <genealogyforever54@gmail.com <mailto:genealogyforever54@gmail.com>> > Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Looking for the White family in and around Carnatrentagh > > Hello list, this is my first posting with you. I am very keen to place my 2 x great grandfather, John White, in his correct family tree. Information about his origins is scanty. There is a death registration, but I am sceptical about some of the facts, particularly the name of his father and mother, and his age. He claimed he was 23 when he married. Family history says he immigrated to Victoria, Australia as a ‘very young man’. He then travelled to Dunedin, New Zealand and married in a presbyterian church 1865 to Mary Nelan (or Neilon, or Nellin etc). Mary could have been a young Catholic woman from Kerry, or maybe Clare. Throughout his life, he was a miner for gold, and worked in a paper mill, and transporting stone. He and Mary had 12 children, 11 of them married and also had large families. Among the childrens’ names were Prudence and Dinah. Twins occurred in their families for a few generations. John White appears to have been an elder in the Presbyterian church. There are many John Whites in passenger lists, and I have not been able to place him as yet. > DNA came along, and I found strong matches to people in Pennsylvania US called Tease. I found familiy trees with Prudence and Dinah, and twins. It looks like John White may belong in these families. They are documented with death certs that point to origins in Calhame, Letterkenny, Donegal. They are all Presbyterian. I produced a possible family tree with a Prudence White marrying John Tease, and her sister Dinah marrying Samuel Tease. their parents were James White and Hannah Galley. I found death records for them. > I need to find baptismal records in this area - however a researcher I employed could not find a possible birth for a John White with these parents. He could be a cousin, and I considered the possibility of John being an illigitamate child of the family. Can anyone help me with directions to Presbyterian archives? I can’t find any records in roots.ie <http://roots.ie/>. > Best wishes, Louise in Perth, Australia > ================================= > Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com <mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> > List Archive - https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com > Join the list by sending an email to - cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com <mailto:cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com> > To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com <mailto:jamckane@gmail.com> > Unsubscribe by sending an email to - cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com <mailto:cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com> > =================================

LS

Len Swindley

Mon, Mar 11, 2024 7:42 AM

Thanks Chris for your most kind and generous comments and welcome back to CTI Welcome to the Premier Website & Research Tool for Cos. Tyrone, Donegal, Londonderry & Fermanagh Genealogy (cotyroneireland.com)https://cotyroneireland.com/index.html; we have missed you! Such generous recognition is a rather rare event for a very small band of volunteers. I respond on behalf of Jim McKane and state that we both work hard to continually offer useful and relevant resources for family historians with forebears from the north-west of Ireland. It is an ongoing project with an extensive archive of free to search records unique in Ireland.

We also thank Elwyn Souter for his ever-useful and valuable responses and input and the valuable contributions from Andrew Oler who contributes transcriptions of Abercorn Estate records, each of which contain hundreds of names

We have many interesting records awaiting attention and completion. Thanks everyone for your support,

Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia

From: Chris Owen via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Sunday, 10 March 2024 4:58 PM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: Chris Owen pinkapp@gmail.com
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: Looking for the White family in and around Carnatrentagh

Sorry Louise as a fellow Aussie in Victoria, I can offer NOTHING! However your comprehensive request struck me as so well constructed. So great job!

But most of all it demonstrates how hard it is for Aussies and Kiwis (our New Zealand neighbours across the water) to get close to difficult Irish records. The Americans are much closer and more likely to be able to head off to Ireland at some point. I think if they had 20-30 hour flights to reach Ireland like we do, there’d be much less visiting!!!! It’s bloody hard from here!

But then along comes Elwyn with the most extraordinarily array of deeply knowledgable answers and fabulous help for you Louise! Apart from the somewhat disappointing news that you need to visit PRONI in person for the best chances of info!

I just wanted to say BRAVO Louise and BRAVO Elwyn!

A long time ago I was on the CoTyIre list and left. On rediscovering it in the last few months I am struck by how many million times better it is these days! So thanks to those who put in the hard yards for us poor lost souls so far away. And there are some very generous volunteers on this site

I thank you most sincerely! But jokingly also bow in your general direction! That would work wouldn’t it? If I bowed West-Nor-West? But seriously you really are stars!

Again thanks
Chris Owen
Melbourne Australia

On 10 Mar 2024, at 16:39, Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:

Louise,

The most comprehensive set of Presbyterian records for Ulster are held in PRONI in Belfast. None of the PRONI collection are on-line and a personal visit is required to view them. Some Presbyterian records are on some of the pay to view sites but many have never been put on-line. So if you can’t find the family on rootsireland then PRONI is probably your best bet. The PRONI catalogue is on-line and you can see what churches exist and what years the records cover.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/guide-church-records

There are 2 townlands called Calhame near Letterkenny. One is in the parish of Leck the other in Conwal. In Leck there is Leckpatrick Presbyterian church with baptism records starting in 1838, also 2nd Strabane with records from 1844. In Conwal, Letterkenny 1stt and Letterkenny 2nd both have records from 1821. Letterkenny 3rd start in 1841 and Trenta in 1836. Copies of all these records are in PRONI.

Obviously if yours are the Leck family then there are no records for the years you probably need. If you widen your search, there are quite a lot of Presbyterian churches in Derry and Donegal, so potentially quite a few to work through, and not all have records for baptisms in the 1830s.

The 1831 census of Co Derry has survived:

National Archives: Census of Ireland 1911https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

If you search it you will find that there were Presbyterian households headed by a John or Jno White in the following parishes: Aghadowey, Balteagh, Kilcornaghan, Upper Comber & Kenaught. So you could start with them. The Donegal 1831 census did not survive and so there you might just have to work through every Presbyterian church in the county.

Most farmers should be listed in the tithe applotment records (they were a tax on land). The records can be found here:

The Tithe Applotment Books, 1823-37 (nationalarchives.ie)https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp

Searching for John White in Donegal I found them in Clonleigh, Donagh, Kilmacrenan and Urney (Urney parish is actually partially in Tyrone as well as Donegal. It straddles the county borders). Not every parishes tithes in Donegal have survived though and so there might have been others that are lost. And the tithes don’t tell you what denomination they were.

As far as Presbyterians in Donegal are concerned, they are mostly in the eastern half of the county. As you probably know they are descendants of Scots who settled in the area in the 1600s. The better farming land is in the east of the county so they mostly headed for that.

Death registration started in Ireland in 1864. I searched 1864 – 1901 for Hannah White. I did not find a single one in Co Derry. There were 2 of the right age in Co Donegal. One was in 1881 aged 85 in the Letterkenny registration area. However she was married to a James White. The other was in 1870 aged 75 in Donegal Town. However that year is not free to view yet and so you would need to order a copy of the certificate to find the details. If that’s not her then your Hannah probably died before 1864. Making her hard to trace. (Presbyterians generally didn’t bother with burial records by the way).

Elwyn

From: Louise Clarkson via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Sent: 10 March 2024 3:32 AM
To: cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Cc: genealogyforever54@gmail.com mailto:genealogyforever54@gmail.com <genealogyforever54@gmail.com mailto:genealogyforever54@gmail.com>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Looking for the White family in and around Carnatrentagh

Hello list, this is my first posting with you. I am very keen to place my 2 x great grandfather, John White, in his correct family tree. Information about his origins is scanty. There is a death registration, but I am sceptical about some of the facts, particularly the name of his father and mother, and his age. He claimed he was 23 when he married. Family history says he immigrated to Victoria, Australia as a ‘very young man’. He then travelled to Dunedin, New Zealand and married in a presbyterian church 1865 to Mary Nelan (or Neilon, or Nellin etc). Mary could have been a young Catholic woman from Kerry, or maybe Clare. Throughout his life, he was a miner for gold, and worked in a paper mill, and transporting stone. He and Mary had 12 children, 11 of them married and also had large families. Among the childrens’ names were Prudence and Dinah. Twins occurred in their families for a few generations. John White appears to have been an elder in the Presbyterian church. There are many John Whites in passenger lists, and I have not been able to place him as yet.
DNA came along, and I found strong matches to people in Pennsylvania US called Tease. I found familiy trees with Prudence and Dinah, and twins. It looks like John White may belong in these families. They are documented with death certs that point to origins in Calhame, Letterkenny, Donegal. They are all Presbyterian. I produced a possible family tree with a Prudence White marrying John Tease, and her sister Dinah marrying Samuel Tease. their parents were James White and Hannah Galley. I found death records for them.
I need to find baptismal records in this area - however a researcher I employed could not find a possible birth for a John White with these parents. He could be a cousin, and I considered the possibility of John being an illigitamate child of the family. Can anyone help me with directions to Presbyterian archives? I can’t find any records in roots.iehttp://roots.ie/.
Best wishes, Louise in Perth, Australia

Thanks Chris for your most kind and generous comments and welcome back to CTI Welcome to the Premier Website & Research Tool for Cos. Tyrone, Donegal, Londonderry & Fermanagh Genealogy (cotyroneireland.com)<https://cotyroneireland.com/index.html>; we have missed you! Such generous recognition is a rather rare event for a very small band of volunteers. I respond on behalf of Jim McKane and state that we both work hard to continually offer useful and relevant resources for family historians with forebears from the north-west of Ireland. It is an ongoing project with an extensive archive of free to search records unique in Ireland. We also thank Elwyn Souter for his ever-useful and valuable responses and input and the valuable contributions from Andrew Oler who contributes transcriptions of Abercorn Estate records, each of which contain hundreds of names We have many interesting records awaiting attention and completion. Thanks everyone for your support, Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia ________________________________ From: Chris Owen via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> Sent: Sunday, 10 March 2024 4:58 PM To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> Cc: Chris Owen <pinkapp@gmail.com> Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: Looking for the White family in and around Carnatrentagh Sorry Louise as a fellow Aussie in Victoria, I can offer NOTHING! However your comprehensive request struck me as so well constructed. So great job! But most of all it demonstrates how hard it is for Aussies and Kiwis (our New Zealand neighbours across the water) to get close to difficult Irish records. The Americans are much closer and more likely to be able to head off to Ireland at some point. I think if they had 20-30 hour flights to reach Ireland like we do, there’d be much less visiting!!!! It’s bloody hard from here! But then along comes Elwyn with the most extraordinarily array of deeply knowledgable answers and fabulous help for you Louise! Apart from the somewhat disappointing news that you need to visit PRONI in person for the best chances of info! I just wanted to say BRAVO Louise and BRAVO Elwyn! A long time ago I was on the CoTyIre list and left. On rediscovering it in the last few months I am struck by how many million times better it is these days! So thanks to those who put in the hard yards for us poor lost souls so far away. And there are some very generous volunteers on this site I thank you most sincerely! But jokingly also bow in your general direction! That would work wouldn’t it? If I bowed West-Nor-West? But seriously you really are stars! Again thanks Chris Owen Melbourne Australia On 10 Mar 2024, at 16:39, Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote: Louise, The most comprehensive set of Presbyterian records for Ulster are held in PRONI in Belfast. None of the PRONI collection are on-line and a personal visit is required to view them. Some Presbyterian records are on some of the pay to view sites but many have never been put on-line. So if you can’t find the family on rootsireland then PRONI is probably your best bet. The PRONI catalogue is on-line and you can see what churches exist and what years the records cover. https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/guide-church-records There are 2 townlands called Calhame near Letterkenny. One is in the parish of Leck the other in Conwal. In Leck there is Leckpatrick Presbyterian church with baptism records starting in 1838, also 2nd Strabane with records from 1844. In Conwal, Letterkenny 1stt and Letterkenny 2nd both have records from 1821. Letterkenny 3rd start in 1841 and Trenta in 1836. Copies of all these records are in PRONI. Obviously if yours are the Leck family then there are no records for the years you probably need. If you widen your search, there are quite a lot of Presbyterian churches in Derry and Donegal, so potentially quite a few to work through, and not all have records for baptisms in the 1830s. The 1831 census of Co Derry has survived: National Archives: Census of Ireland 1911<https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/> If you search it you will find that there were Presbyterian households headed by a John or Jno White in the following parishes: Aghadowey, Balteagh, Kilcornaghan, Upper Comber & Kenaught. So you could start with them. The Donegal 1831 census did not survive and so there you might just have to work through every Presbyterian church in the county. Most farmers should be listed in the tithe applotment records (they were a tax on land). The records can be found here: The Tithe Applotment Books, 1823-37 (nationalarchives.ie)<https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp> Searching for John White in Donegal I found them in Clonleigh, Donagh, Kilmacrenan and Urney (Urney parish is actually partially in Tyrone as well as Donegal. It straddles the county borders). Not every parishes tithes in Donegal have survived though and so there might have been others that are lost. And the tithes don’t tell you what denomination they were. As far as Presbyterians in Donegal are concerned, they are mostly in the eastern half of the county. As you probably know they are descendants of Scots who settled in the area in the 1600s. The better farming land is in the east of the county so they mostly headed for that. Death registration started in Ireland in 1864. I searched 1864 – 1901 for Hannah White. I did not find a single one in Co Derry. There were 2 of the right age in Co Donegal. One was in 1881 aged 85 in the Letterkenny registration area. However she was married to a James White. The other was in 1870 aged 75 in Donegal Town. However that year is not free to view yet and so you would need to order a copy of the certificate to find the details. If that’s not her then your Hannah probably died before 1864. Making her hard to trace. (Presbyterians generally didn’t bother with burial records by the way). Elwyn ________________________________ From: Louise Clarkson via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>> Sent: 10 March 2024 3:32 AM To: cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>> Cc: genealogyforever54@gmail.com<mailto:genealogyforever54@gmail.com> <genealogyforever54@gmail.com<mailto:genealogyforever54@gmail.com>> Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Looking for the White family in and around Carnatrentagh Hello list, this is my first posting with you. I am very keen to place my 2 x great grandfather, John White, in his correct family tree. Information about his origins is scanty. There is a death registration, but I am sceptical about some of the facts, particularly the name of his father and mother, and his age. He claimed he was 23 when he married. Family history says he immigrated to Victoria, Australia as a ‘very young man’. He then travelled to Dunedin, New Zealand and married in a presbyterian church 1865 to Mary Nelan (or Neilon, or Nellin etc). Mary could have been a young Catholic woman from Kerry, or maybe Clare. Throughout his life, he was a miner for gold, and worked in a paper mill, and transporting stone. He and Mary had 12 children, 11 of them married and also had large families. Among the childrens’ names were Prudence and Dinah. Twins occurred in their families for a few generations. John White appears to have been an elder in the Presbyterian church. There are many John Whites in passenger lists, and I have not been able to place him as yet. DNA came along, and I found strong matches to people in Pennsylvania US called Tease. I found familiy trees with Prudence and Dinah, and twins. It looks like John White may belong in these families. They are documented with death certs that point to origins in Calhame, Letterkenny, Donegal. They are all Presbyterian. I produced a possible family tree with a Prudence White marrying John Tease, and her sister Dinah marrying Samuel Tease. their parents were James White and Hannah Galley. I found death records for them. I need to find baptismal records in this area - however a researcher I employed could not find a possible birth for a John White with these parents. He could be a cousin, and I considered the possibility of John being an illigitamate child of the family. Can anyone help me with directions to Presbyterian archives? I can’t find any records in roots.ie<http://roots.ie/>. Best wishes, Louise in Perth, Australia ================================= Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> List Archive - https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com Join the list by sending an email to - cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com> To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com<mailto:jamckane@gmail.com> Unsubscribe by sending an email to - cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com> =================================