The ladies group photo taken at a haystack beside a lake (with accompanying gentleman) is certainly an 1890s photograph. I'd say the 1895 vacation trip is exactly when it was taken. Ladies fashions weren't very different from country to country, and the same is true today. Both men and women (those who were able to afford fashionable clothing) followed fashion trends. You can "date" a photo in general from any time period, taken anywhere, by the clothes, hairstyles and accessories. Images of Queen Victoria of England (1819-1901) as a young woman look very much like Varina Howell (1826-1906), wife of Confederate president Jefferson Davis in the USA, and both women look like the famous Swedish singer, Jenny Lind (1820-1887). Each young lady is dressed in her finest silks, jewels and hair ornaments for the portrait taken thousands of miles apart in different countries. Queen Victoria 1819-1901 Varina Howell Davis 1826-1906 Jenny Lind 1820-1887 The hats in the "Is this a ladies group in Scotland?" photograph are particularly "1890s," as are the skirts, gored to fit smoothly over the ladies' hips. Long-gone were the bustles of previous years! Also, women's bodices in the 1890s were notable for large leg-o-mutton or gigot sleeves -- clearly seen in this photo. Another 1890s trend: a "masculine" look was popular for work, sports and outdoor activities: ladies wore a shirtwaist or blouse that was tailored like man’s shirt, often with a necktie or bowtie. Ladies in hats bicycling 1890s Ladies on a bicycling excursion in the 1890s, or dressed for work in a Toronto library, are dressed like the young ladies who posed beside the haystack. Library staff at Mechanics Institute c1895 Toronto Last year, MyHeritage released a feature called "PhotoDater" that uses AI (artificial intelligence) technology to estimate the year a photo was taken. PhotoDater examines clothing, hairstyles, accessories and other objects characteristic of a particular decade. After a few seconds, an estimated year the photo was taken appears. See "Introducing PhotoDater" on the MyHeritage Blog web site: https://blog.myheritage.com/2023/08/introducing-photodater-an-exclusive-free-new-feature-to-estimate-when-old-photos-were-taken/ There are also editorials and reviews of PhotoDater on various genealogy web sites. I'm sure other genealogy companies will soon be introducing similar features, if not already hosting and advertising them. Identifying old photographs is so important in family history! Is this a photograph of "Grandmother Mary" taken in 1865, as the family has said for years, or her daughter "Lizzy" in 1885? Inquiring minds would like to know! Also (without using a photo dating program) you can do a Google or other search engine search for "fashion history" or "ladies fashions 1890s" (or whatever decade you'd like to check). There are many web sites with helpful photographs you can compare your own photos with. Annie

WOW Annie, thank you -- what a wonderful response with all these lovely details... I was hoping someone on the list might have this kind of knowledge :-) Thanks as well to others who responded on- and off-list -- I'm excited to have this new piece of family history "pretty darn certain" to be true... it's amazing how a bit of luck can play into one's investigations... it was only because I was looking for something else that I found the scan of Carrie's diary from her 1895 trip, and that caused me to wonder if this new-found might be related, so I re-read and as the story unfolded and I saw the mention of 10 women meeting some men who took a photo :-) Good to know about the AI-driven photo identifier... I have about 1000 scanned images, and perhaps 50-75 are not yet known... I suspect some of the people whom I do know are in some of the other pictures (saw some familiar faces when looking last night LOL), so an AI assist would be helpful! Thanks again, everyone!! Dave ------ Original Message ------ From "Annie Crenshaw via CoTyroneList" <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> To cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com Cc "Annie Crenshaw" <crenshawannie@gmail.com> Date 8/26/2024 1:06:43 PM Subject [CoTyroneMailingList] Photo 1895 ladies group in Scotland >The ladies group photo taken at a haystack beside a lake (with >accompanying gentleman) is certainly an 1890s photograph. I'd say the >1895 vacation trip is exactly when it was taken. > >Ladies fashions weren't very different from country to country, and the >same is true today. Both men and women (those who were able to afford >fashionable clothing) followed fashion trends. You can "date" a photo >in general from any time period, taken anywhere, by the clothes, >hairstyles and accessories. > >Images of Queen Victoria of England (1819-1901) as a young woman look >very much like Varina Howell (1826-1906), wife of Confederate president >Jefferson Davis in the USA, and both women look like the famous Swedish >singer, Jenny Lind (1820-1887). Each young lady is dressed in her >finest silks, jewels and hair ornaments for the portrait taken >thousands of miles apart in different countries. > > >Queen Victoria 1819-1901 > > >Varina Howell Davis 1826-1906 > > >Jenny Lind 1820-1887 > > > >The hats in the "Is this a ladies group in Scotland?" photograph are >particularly "1890s," as are the skirts, gored to fit smoothly over the >ladies' hips. Long-gone were the bustles of previous years! Also, >women's bodices in the 1890s were notable for large leg-o-mutton or >gigot sleeves -- clearly seen in this photo. Another 1890s trend: a >"masculine" look was popular for work, sports and outdoor activities: >ladies wore a shirtwaist or blouse that was tailored like man’s shirt, >often with a necktie or bowtie. > > >Ladies in hats bicycling 1890s > > >Ladies on a bicycling excursion in the 1890s, or dressed for work in a >Toronto library, are dressed like the young ladies who posed beside the >haystack. > >Library staff at Mechanics Institute c1895 Toronto > > >Last year, MyHeritage released a feature called "PhotoDater" that uses >AI (artificial intelligence) technology to estimate the year a photo >was taken. PhotoDater examines clothing, hairstyles, accessories and >other objects characteristic of a particular decade. After a few >seconds, an estimated year the photo was taken appears. See >"Introducing PhotoDater" on the MyHeritage Blog web site: > >https://blog.myheritage.com/2023/08/introducing-photodater-an-exclusive-free-new-feature-to-estimate-when-old-photos-were-taken/ > >There are also editorials and reviews of PhotoDater on various >genealogy web sites. I'm sure other genealogy companies will soon be >introducing similar features, if not already hosting and advertising >them. Identifying old photographs is so important in family history! Is >this a photograph of "Grandmother Mary" taken in 1865, as the family >has said for years, or her daughter "Lizzy" in 1885? Inquiring minds >would like to know! > >Also (without using a photo dating program) you can do a Google or >other search engine search for "fashion history" or "ladies fashions >1890s" (or whatever decade you'd like to check). There are many web >sites with helpful photographs you can compare your own photos with. > >Annie > >

Hello Annie, Thanks very much for your excellent and fascinating analysis of the fashions in the photo. I enjoyed reading it! Pat > On Aug 26, 2024, at 10:46 AM, Dave Vanable via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > > WOW Annie, thank you -- what a wonderful response with all these lovely details... I was hoping someone on the list might have this kind of knowledge :-) > > Thanks as well to others who responded on- and off-list -- I'm excited to have this new piece of family history "pretty darn certain" to be true... it's amazing how a bit of luck can play into one's investigations... it was only because I was looking for something else that I found the scan of Carrie's diary from her 1895 trip, and that caused me to wonder if this new-found might be related, so I re-read and as the story unfolded and I saw the mention of 10 women meeting some men who took a photo :-) > > Good to know about the AI-driven photo identifier... I have about 1000 scanned images, and perhaps 50-75 are not yet known... I suspect some of the people whom I do know are in some of the other pictures (saw some familiar faces when looking last night LOL), so an AI assist would be helpful! > > Thanks again, everyone!! > > Dave > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From "Annie Crenshaw via CoTyroneList" <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com <mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>> > To cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com <mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> > Cc "Annie Crenshaw" <crenshawannie@gmail.com <mailto:crenshawannie@gmail.com>> > Date 8/26/2024 1:06:43 PM > Subject [CoTyroneMailingList] Photo 1895 ladies group in Scotland > >> The ladies group photo taken at a haystack beside a lake (with accompanying gentleman) is certainly an 1890s photograph. I'd say the 1895 vacation trip is exactly when it was taken. >> >> Ladies fashions weren't very different from country to country, and the same is true today. Both men and women (those who were able to afford fashionable clothing) followed fashion trends. You can "date" a photo in general from any time period, taken anywhere, by the clothes, hairstyles and accessories. >> >> Images of Queen Victoria of England (1819-1901) as a young woman look very much like Varina Howell (1826-1906), wife of Confederate president Jefferson Davis in the USA, and both women look like the famous Swedish singer, Jenny Lind (1820-1887). Each young lady is dressed in her finest silks, jewels and hair ornaments for the portrait taken thousands of miles apart in different countries. >> >> >> <Queen Victoria 1819-1901.jpg> >> >> <Varina Howell Davis 1826-1906.jpg> >> >> <Jenny Lind 1820-1887.jpg> >> >> >> The hats in the "Is this a ladies group in Scotland?" photograph are particularly "1890s," as are the skirts, gored to fit smoothly over the ladies' hips. Long-gone were the bustles of previous years! Also, women's bodices in the 1890s were notable for large leg-o-mutton or gigot sleeves -- clearly seen in this photo. Another 1890s trend: a "masculine" look was popular for work, sports and outdoor activities: ladies wore a shirtwaist or blouse that was tailored like man’s shirt, often with a necktie or bowtie. >> >> >> <Ladies in hats bicycling 1890s.jpg> >> >> Ladies on a bicycling excursion in the 1890s, or dressed for work in a Toronto library, are dressed like the young ladies who posed beside the haystack. >> >> <Library staff at Mechanics Institute c1895 Toronto.jpg> >> >> Last year, MyHeritage released a feature called "PhotoDater" that uses AI (artificial intelligence) technology to estimate the year a photo was taken. PhotoDater examines clothing, hairstyles, accessories and other objects characteristic of a particular decade. After a few seconds, an estimated year the photo was taken appears. See "Introducing PhotoDater" on the MyHeritage Blog web site: >> >> https://blog.myheritage.com/2023/08/introducing-photodater-an-exclusive-free-new-feature-to-estimate-when-old-photos-were-taken/ >> >> There are also editorials and reviews of PhotoDater on various genealogy web sites. I'm sure other genealogy companies will soon be introducing similar features, if not already hosting and advertising them. Identifying old photographs is so important in family history! Is this a photograph of "Grandmother Mary" taken in 1865, as the family has said for years, or her daughter "Lizzy" in 1885? Inquiring minds would like to know! >> >> Also (without using a photo dating program) you can do a Google or other search engine search for "fashion history" or "ladies fashions 1890s" (or whatever decade you'd like to check). There are many web sites with helpful photographs you can compare your own photos with. >> >> Annie >> >> > ================================= > Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com > List Archive - https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com > Join the list by sending an email to - cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com > To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com > Unsubscribe by sending an email to - cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com > =================================