Personal Announcements from the Londonderry Sentinel December 2, 1880
Hello Everyone,
I hope that someone finds something here to help your research:,
Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia
Londonderry Sentinel December 2 1880. Page 2
[cid:b59a1496-03c4-4c51-8d80-ad2d39c6cb86]
Personal Announcements from the Londonderry Sentinel December 2, 1880
Our thanks again to our stalwart Len for his incessant, intrepid, almost
unrelenting work.
One birth notice especially caught my eye, so I went checking. Hmm! Some
interesting observations that I thought might be informative for others ..
As Len shows, the Londonderry Sentinel of December 2, 1880 included this
birth notice:
"November 30, at Cranedonnell, the wife of Andrew Dunn, of a son."
I had never heard of the townland "Cranedonnell" - but there were Dunns at
or in the vicinity of "Creevedonnell" which is in Glendermott Parish, co.
Londonderry.
Sure enough, the GRO Civil Births Register online at www.irishgenealogy.ie
http://www.irishgenealogy.ie lists the birth of
"Andrew, son of Andrew Dunne and Sarah Jane Boggs" at Crievedonnell
- but this with 30th December 1880 as the date of birth, now that's a full
month after the newspaper had appeared!
See at
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/bi
rths_1881/02841/2041289.pdf
I checked further with GRONI, for the original civil register for
Londonderry (Registration Sub-District is Glendermott).
There was the same entry - this also "confirming" Andrew Dunne's date of
birth as "30th December 1880", all signed off by W. H. Elliott, the
Registrar. Andrew and his parents' place of residence is similarly given
here as "Crievedonnell"
See at https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/search/birth#refineSearchResults
(The actual image at GRONI is accessible by subscription only - I did have a
peep, have checked the detail.)
So not one of the 3 sources for young Andrew Dunn's birth is correct - we
need all 3 to be able to derive the truth for ourselves. I'm punting for
the townland of Creevedonnell (Glendermott Parish) with DoB 30th November
1880 (even this, in the absence of other sources .!)
We can also see the marriage of Andrew Dunn of Crievedonnel and Sarah Jane
Boggs of Brigh - they were married on April 1st, 1869 at Malin, in Donegal
(Registrar's District of Inishowen).
See at
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns
/marriages_1869/11420/8194424.pdf
There is another copy of this very same marriage between Andrew Dunn and
Sarah Beggs (albeit with a different reference number) online at
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns
/marriages_1869/11409/8189864.pdf
Interesting to note then that this was perhaps a honeymoon marriage, or were
they perhaps working far away from their native townland homes - Andrew from
Creevedonnel (Glendermott Parish. co. Londonderry) and Sarah from Brigh
(Ballyclog Parish, co. Tyrone), yet they were married right up in the
northwest area of Malin, co. Donegal (which is near Carndonagh and Malin
Head). Methinks therein lies another story .
This map from Google maps shows the distance
Another observation worth noting is that when I looked at the GRO Civil
Registers using Microsoft Edge, I couldn't retrieve the actual webpage link
to share with you. No such problem with Google Chrome - the links given
above should take anyone right to the exact register page (you will still
have to sign into the Civil Register portal).
Irish research is not for the fainthearted.
Perhaps that's one reason why we enjoy it so much! And why we're "better
together" with sharing and collaborating.
Thanks Len, thanks once again for your guiding hand ..
Dave Mitchell
Cape Town
South Africa
From: Len Swindley via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: 01 October 2022 02:07 PM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: Len Swindley len_swindley@hotmail.com
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Personal Announcements from the Londonderry
Sentinel December 2, 1880
Hello Everyone,
I hope that someone finds something here to help your research:,
Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia
Londonderry Sentinel December 2 1880. Page 2
Hello Dave,
That is quite some extensive research you have undertaken, but rather sadly, the spelling of the bride’s place of residence has caused confusion and led you down a rabbit hole. Alas, Irish research does that!
Contributions to the columns of personal notices were presented to the typesetters at the Sentinel/ Standard & Journal offices in Derry as handwritten items and spelling of townlands could be easily misinterpreted especially by an employee with no knowledge of those townlands and parishes concerned.
So went looking for a newspaper announcement of the marriage and located the following in the Londonderry Sentinel April 13 1869
[cid:3ae9e432-6c0f-424c-952a-100d748c66f0]
Bree townland is located within Clonca parish, Co. Donegal and have found it spelt variously as Brigh, Bree and Brae – all pronounced in the Ulster accent as Bray. Referring to the Tithe Applotment Book and Griffiths Valuation of Clonca there are numerous families of Boggs recorded within Bree.
There are Boggs headstones in the Malin Presbyterian churchyard which have been transcribed and can be found at: Malin Presbyterian Church Graveyard Inscriptions (donegalgenealogy.com)http://donegalgenealogy.com/malinpresgy.htm
Of course, none of this explains how it was that Andrew and Sarah Jane came to meet, but it was possibly Derry where there were families of Boggs; Ninian Boggs was a former prominent citizen (I note that Ninian (Nene) is a name that is inscribed on a headstone back in Malin}.
Isn’t Irish genealogical research fascinating? I think we can disregard Brigh in Co Tyrone as being applicable in this case. Thanks for your hard work.
All good wishes,
Len Swindley
From: Dave Mitchell via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Sunday, 2 October 2022 1:41 AM
To: 'CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List' cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: Dave Mitchell dm60@mweb.co.za
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: Andrew Dunn and Sarah Boggs, at Creevedonnell
Personal Announcements from the Londonderry Sentinel December 2, 1880
Our thanks again to our stalwart Len for his incessant, intrepid, almost unrelenting work.
One birth notice especially caught my eye, so I went checking. Hmm! Some interesting observations that I thought might be informative for others ….
As Len shows, the Londonderry Sentinel of December 2, 1880 included this birth notice:
“November 30, at Cranedonnell, the wife of Andrew Dunn, of a son.”
[cid:image001.png@01D8D5BA.109679C0]
I had never heard of the townland “Cranedonnell” – but there were Dunns at or in the vicinity of “Creevedonnell” which is in Glendermott Parish, co. Londonderry.
Sure enough, the GRO Civil Births Register online at www.irishgenealogy.iehttp://www.irishgenealogy.ie lists the birth of
“Andrew, son of Andrew Dunne and Sarah Jane Boggs” at Crievedonnell
– but this with 30th December 1880 as the date of birth, now that’s a full month after the newspaper had appeared!
[cid:image002.png@01D8D5BA.109679C0]
I checked further with GRONI, for the original civil register for Londonderry (Registration Sub-District is Glendermott).
There was the same entry – this also “confirming” Andrew Dunne’s date of birth as “30th December 1880”, all signed off by W. H. Elliott, the Registrar. Andrew and his parents’ place of residence is similarly given here as “Crievedonnell”
[Graphical user interface, application Description automatically generated]
See at https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/search/birth#refineSearchResults
(The actual image at GRONI is accessible by subscription only – I did have a peep, have checked the detail.)
So not one of the 3 sources for young Andrew Dunn’s birth is correct – we need all 3 to be able to derive the truth for ourselves. I’m punting for the townland of Creevedonnell (Glendermott Parish) with DoB 30th November 1880 (even this, in the absence of other sources …!)
We can also see the marriage of Andrew Dunn of Crievedonnel and Sarah Jane Boggs of Brigh – they were married on April 1st, 1869 at Malin, in Donegal (Registrar’s District of Inishowen).
[cid:image004.png@01D8D5BA.109679C0]
There is another copy of this very same marriage between Andrew Dunn and Sarah Beggs (albeit with a different reference number) online at
Interesting to note then that this was perhaps a honeymoon marriage, or were they perhaps working far away from their native townland homes – Andrew from Creevedonnel (Glendermott Parish. co. Londonderry) and Sarah from Brigh (Ballyclog Parish, co. Tyrone), yet they were married right up in the northwest area of Malin, co. Donegal (which is near Carndonagh and Malin Head). Methinks therein lies another story …
This map from Google maps shows the distance
[Map Description automatically generated]
Another observation worth noting is that when I looked at the GRO Civil Registers using Microsoft Edge, I couldn’t retrieve the actual webpage link to share with you. No such problem with Google Chrome – the links given above should take anyone right to the exact register page (you will still have to sign into the Civil Register portal).
Irish research is not for the fainthearted.
Perhaps that’s one reason why we enjoy it so much! And why we’re “better together” with sharing and collaborating.
Thanks Len, thanks once again for your guiding hand ….
Dave Mitchell
Cape Town
South Africa
From: Len Swindley via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: 01 October 2022 02:07 PM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: Len Swindley len_swindley@hotmail.com
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Personal Announcements from the Londonderry Sentinel December 2, 1880
Hello Everyone,
I hope that someone finds something here to help your research:,
Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia
Londonderry Sentinel December 2 1880. Page 2
Hi Len
Thanks for the kind words and for the correction – a townland of origin out in Donegal at Malin makes so much more sense! And as for the cemetery referral, no wonder unravelling this line of research was liable to get bogged down – so many BMD entries, thank you.
Mrs Rebecca Boggs of 54 Argyle Street, Londonderry was a delightful lady. Born Rebecca Mitchell Hyndman in Drumcorran (Glendermott), she was a first cousin to my grandfather Dr J. A. Mitchell. A widow with no children of her own, she followed his travels and life's progress in South Africa with a close interest, and some of her own handwritten notes (still family held) were a helpful inspiration especially in the early days of my youthful pre-internet sleuthing.
Her hubby was William Boggs – a man who I can now see was Sarah Jane’s brother and it was presumably him who witnessed her marriage to Andrew Dunn, with his signature recorded in the Malin marriage register.
I'm posting this reply to you publicly for 3 good reasons. Not only does it show how 2 siblings in the Malin area of north-west co. Donegal ended up marrying spouses from the other side of the Foyle, some 25 - 30 miles away -- also, that the 2 spouses (although themselves not siblings too) came from the same "neck of the woods" (fields) as it were, and were (I suspect) fairly close cousins themselves.
And for me, an unexpected bonus spin-off -- I now have more details of a family in-law and his/her own connections, plus what is most likely an identified original signature, for comparison with other documents.
Thanks Jim and others, for running this list and making the co. Tyrone website and community what it is.
Kind regards
Dave Mitchell
From: "Len Swindley" len_swindley@hotmail.com
To: "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List" cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: "Dave Mitchell" dm60@mweb.co.za
Sent: Sunday, 2 October, 2022 04:43:42
Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: Andrew Dunn and Sarah Boggs, at Creevedonnell
Hello Dave,
That is quite some extensive research you have undertaken, but rather sadly, the spelling of the bride’s place of residence has caused confusion and led you down a rabbit hole. Alas, Irish research does that!
Contributions to the columns of personal notices were presented to the typesetters at the Sentinel/ Standard & Journal offices in Derry as handwritten items and spelling of townlands could be easily misinterpreted especially by an employee with no knowledge of those townlands and parishes concerned.
So went looking for a newspaper announcement of the marriage and located the following in the Londonderry Sentinel April 13 1869
Bree townland is located within Clonca parish, Co. Donegal and have found it spelt variously as Brigh, Bree and Brae – all pronounced in the Ulster accent as Bray. Referring to the Tithe Applotment Book and Griffiths Valuation of Clonca there are numerous families of Boggs recorded within Bree.
There are Boggs headstones in the Malin Presbyterian churchyard which have been transcribed and can be found at: [ http://donegalgenealogy.com/malinpresgy.htm | Malin Presbyterian Church Graveyard Inscriptions (donegalgenealogy.com) ]
Of course, none of this explains how it was that Andrew and Sarah Jane came to meet, but it was possibly Derry where there were families of Boggs; Ninian Boggs was a former prominent citizen (I note that Ninian (Nene) is a name that is inscribed on a headstone back in Malin}.
Isn’t Irish genealogical research fascinating? I think we can disregard Brigh in Co Tyrone as being applicable in this case. Thanks for your hard work.
All good wishes,
Len Swindley
From: Dave Mitchell via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Sunday, 2 October 2022 1:41 AM
To: 'CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List' cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: Dave Mitchell dm60@mweb.co.za
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: Andrew Dunn and Sarah Boggs, at Creevedonnell
Personal Announcements from the Londonderry Sentinel December 2, 1880
Our thanks again to our stalwart Len for his incessant, intrepid, almost unrelenting work.
One birth notice especially caught my eye, so I went checking. Hmm! Some interesting observations that I thought might be informative for others ….
As Len shows, the Londonderry Sentinel of December 2, 1880 included this birth notice:
“November 30, at Cranedonnell, the wife of Andrew Dunn, of a son.”
I had never heard of the townland “Cranedonnell” – but there were Dunns at or in the vicinity of “Creevedonnell” which is in Glendermott Parish, co. Londonderry.
Sure enough, the GRO Civil Births Register online at [ http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/ | www.irishgenealogy.ie ] lists the birth of
“Andrew, son of Andrew Dunne and Sarah Jane Boggs” at Crievedonnell
– but this with 30 th December 1880 as the date of birth, now that’s a full month after the newspaper had appeared!
See at [ https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02841/2041289.pdf |
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02841/2041289.pdf ]
I checked further with GRONI, for the original civil register for Londonderry (Registration Sub-District is Glendermott).
There was the same entry – this also “confirming” Andrew Dunne’s date of birth as “30 th December 1880”, all signed off by W. H. Elliott, the Registrar. Andrew and his parents’ place of residence is similarly given here as “Crievedonnell”
See at [ https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/search/birth#refineSearchResults | https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/search/birth#refineSearchResults ]
(The actual image at GRONI is accessible by subscription only – I did have a peep, have checked the detail.)
So not one of the 3 sources for young Andrew Dunn’s birth is correct – we need all 3 to be able to derive the truth for ourselves. I’m punting for the townland of Creevedonnell (Glendermott Parish) with DoB 30 th November 1880 (even this, in the absence of other sources …!)
We can also see the marriage of Andrew Dunn of Crievedonnel and Sarah Jane Boggs of Brigh – they were married on April 1 st , 1869 at Malin, in Donegal (Registrar’s District of Inishowen).
See at [ https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1869/11420/8194424.pdf |
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1869/11420/8194424.pdf ]
There is another copy of this very same marriage between Andrew Dunn and Sarah Beggs (albeit with a different reference number) online at
[ https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1869/11409/8189864.pdf | https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1869/11409/8189864.pdf ]
Interesting to note then that this was perhaps a honeymoon marriage, or were they perhaps working far away from their native townland homes – Andrew from Creevedonnel (Glendermott Parish. co. Londonderry) and Sarah from Brigh (Ballyclog Parish, co. Tyrone), yet they were married right up in the northwest area of Malin, co. Donegal (which is near Carndonagh and Malin Head). Methinks therein lies another story …
This map from Google maps shows the distance
Another observation worth noting is that when I looked at the GRO Civil Registers using Microsoft Edge, I couldn’t retrieve the actual webpage link to share with you. No such problem with Google Chrome – the links given above should take anyone right to the exact register page (you will still have to sign into the Civil Register portal).
Irish research is not for the fainthearted.
Perhaps that’s one reason why we enjoy it so much! And why we’re “better together” with sharing and collaborating.
Thanks Len, thanks once again for your guiding hand ….
Dave Mitchell
Cape Town
South Africa
From: Len Swindley via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: 01 October 2022 02:07 PM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: Len Swindley len_swindley@hotmail.com
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Personal Announcements from the Londonderry Sentinel December 2, 1880
Hello Everyone,
I hope that someone finds something here to help your research:,
Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia
Londonderry Sentinel December 2 1880. Page 2
Hello
This is my first message to this list and I'm not sure whether I'm in
the right place. I am helping a friend and I'm not au fait with Irish
research.
This is the situation:
Thomas James Sloan LATIMER born c.1854 he moved to London by 1881 where
he married Emily SMITH.
His parents were Thomas James LATIMER and Matilda SLOAN (Stewartstown,
Co Tyrone), They married on 27 Jan 1852 at Moneymore, Magherafelt,
County Londonderry. As well as Thomas, they had Robert Sloan LATIMER who
became a baptist minister and author and he died in Cambridge. Also
Martha Sloan LATIMER on 23 Oct 1856. I don't know what happened to her.
I would be interested to find more about Thomas James LATIMER the elder.
Regards, Liz
Hello Liz
In case you haven't got this, here's the link to the marriage register for the 1852 marriage -- James Lattimer and Matilda Sloan. These are transcribed registers held at the GRO.
Home page at
www.irishgenealogy.ie
and
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie
You will note he signed himslef as "James Latimer".
The actual registers are accessible at GRONI, would give his original signature.
Good luck with your researching.
Dave Mitchell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Liz Youle via CoTyroneList" cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
To: "cotyronelist" cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: "Liz Youle" fh.researcher@btinternet.com
Sent: Sunday, 2 October, 2022 19:27:09
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Co Tyrone - LATIMER
Hello
This is my first message to this list and I'm not sure whether I'm in
the right place. I am helping a friend and I'm not au fait with Irish
research.
This is the situation:
Thomas James Sloan LATIMER born c.1854 he moved to London by 1881 where
he married Emily SMITH.
His parents were Thomas James LATIMER and Matilda SLOAN (Stewartstown,
Co Tyrone), They married on 27 Jan 1852 at Moneymore, Magherafelt,
County Londonderry. As well as Thomas, they had Robert Sloan LATIMER who
became a baptist minister and author and he died in Cambridge. Also
Martha Sloan LATIMER on 23 Oct 1856. I don't know what happened to her.
I would be interested to find more about Thomas James LATIMER the elder.
Regards, Liz
Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
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Liz,
To add to Dave’s information, the townland where Thomas James Latimer was
living when he married in 1852 was Cranny. Griffiths Valuation lists 2
Latimer families there c 1860. Plot 9 was Andrew and plot 10 was Thomas,
suggesting the 2 may be related. (Both farms are easy enough to locate
today. Still farmland, on the modern Iniscarn Rd).
Probate abstracts from the PRONI wills site:
The Will of John Latimer late of Cranny County Londonderry Farmer who died
27 January 1889 at same place was proved at Londonderry by James Sands of
Lecumpher and Henry Porter of Killyboggin in said County Farmers the
Executors.
Probate of the Will of Catherine Latimer late of Cranny County Londonderry
Widow who died 18 February 1898 granted at Londonderry to Andrew Latimer of
Lecumpher said County and Thomas George Johnson of Cranny Farmers.
Both wills are on-line on the PRONI wills site. John left his farm to his
wife Catherine, and a bequest to his son Samuel in Philadelphia, USA.
Catherine left the farm to Samuel. Her will mentions 2 daughters.
2 Latimer households in the 1831 census of Cranny (beside each other):
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Loughinshollen/Desertmartin/Cranny/25/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Loughinshollen/Desertmartin/Cranny/26/
Family were Presbyterian, so for baptism records pre 1864 you would need to
search the local Presbyterian churches. Tradition was to marry in the
bride’s church. Daughters Sarah & Eliza both married in Lecumpher
Presbyterian so that may be the family church. It’s records start in 1825
(copy in PRONI).
Andrew Latimer’s marriage here (again in Lecumpher). His father was Robert,
so possibly he’s a brother to your Thomas James Latimer.
That household in the 1901 census (Andrew dead).
Elwyn
On Sun, 2 Oct 2022 at 18:54, dm60--- via CoTyroneList <
cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:
Hello Liz
In case you haven't got this, here's the link to the marriage register for
the 1852 marriage -- James Lattimer and Matilda Sloan. These are
transcribed registers held at the GRO.
Home page at
www.irishgenealogy.ie
and
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie
You will note he signed himslef as "James Latimer".
The actual registers are accessible at GRONI, would give his original
signature.
Good luck with your researching.
Dave Mitchell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Liz Youle via CoTyroneList" cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
To: "cotyronelist" cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: "Liz Youle" fh.researcher@btinternet.com
Sent: Sunday, 2 October, 2022 19:27:09
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Co Tyrone - LATIMER
Hello
This is my first message to this list and I'm not sure whether I'm in
the right place. I am helping a friend and I'm not au fait with Irish
research.
This is the situation:
Thomas James Sloan LATIMER born c.1854 he moved to London by 1881 where
he married Emily SMITH.
His parents were Thomas James LATIMER and Matilda SLOAN (Stewartstown,
Co Tyrone), They married on 27 Jan 1852 at Moneymore, Magherafelt,
County Londonderry. As well as Thomas, they had Robert Sloan LATIMER who
became a baptist minister and author and he died in Cambridge. Also
Martha Sloan LATIMER on 23 Oct 1856. I don't know what happened to her.
I would be interested to find more about Thomas James LATIMER the elder.
Regards, Liz
Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
List Archive -
https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com
Join the list by sending an email to -
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To receive the Digest version, send an email to -
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Unsubscribe by sending an email to -
cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com
Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
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Join the list by sending an email to -
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Thank you to everyone for their help with my LATTIMER and SLOAN family.
I am off for a short holiday with my dog. We will be absent for a few
days but will be back again by next week. I really appreciate all the
help already provided. I've always struggled with Irish research and
usually give up.
Very best wishes to you all.
Liz