Baz in MotoAmerica - HSBK team
And has Ducati Corse support.
-Bob
I’m thrilled that we will have a fast rider in America in the form of Baz, and I suppose I’ll be supportive in my hope that he does well for the brand, but I just can’t talk about Baz without my feelings being forever tarnished by his (in my opinion) horrible actions in the final race of WSBK in 2014, when he defied team orders and refused to give up the lead to Tom Sykes, denying Sykes the World Championship. I still remember being in disbelief, yelling at the tv for him to let Sykes by. Oh well……….
STeve
On Feb 3, 2021, at 3:18 PM, Bob Ryan ryanr256@gmail.com wrote:
https://motoamerica.com/loris-baz-set-for-2021-motoamerica-superbike-assault-with-warhorse-hsbk-racing-ducati/ https://motoamerica.com/loris-baz-set-for-2021-motoamerica-superbike-assault-with-warhorse-hsbk-racing-ducati/
And has Ducati Corse support.
-Bob
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I know I'm likely in the minority here, but really, with the state of the
sport and all the clamoring about how light the grids are etc, why are we
(well, Ducati and Warhorse?) spending the money on a has-been in our
national series? Baz is a fine rider, but well beyond his prime (much like
Elias), and we're dumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into that
program to elevate Baz to potentially a national champion? Meanwhile, our
homegrown talent like PJ, Herrin, Wyman etc are often struggling to make it
to the next round, not to mention others down the grid with the same
talent, but lesser opportunity.
I'm not a Nationalist by any means, but if we're trying to build a US
MotoGP champ, this doesn't seem to be the way. Granted, Beubier has a shot
now, so we'll see how that works out soon enough. I'd rather look
forward. Stop this bagger crap, invest in the youth of the sport, and
provide opportunities for MORE people, not stack the deck for one.
That's just me though. And I'll gladly watch the Junior Cup (and mini cup
actually) over any of the Superbike races where money often wins over
talent.
Pags
Amazing I'm in such agreement Pags. My first reaction was how about Wyman and Herin not to mention others coming up. But I would say if he runs up front and causes others to up their game, well that culd be a good thing assuming it is on equal terms on the track. - Gene
"I Know a Few Roads"
Patriot Guard Rider
AMA Charter Life Member #598925
Charter Member #166 of the Victory Motorcycle Club
DUCATI.net Member
USDESMO Member #1263
EX-MSF Instructor
EX-President Mid Atlantic Ducati Owners Club
Victory's - 01' V92SC, 04' Kingpin, 16' XC Tour
Ducati's - 02' M900, 13' Diavel
HD - 09' XR1200
From: Tony Pags ajpags@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 10:04 AM
To: Ducati Owners Group ducati@list.ducati.net
Subject: [Ducati] Re: Baz in MotoAmerica - HSBK team
I know I'm likely in the minority here, but really, with the state of the sport and all the clamoring about how light the grids are etc, why are we (well, Ducati and Warhorse?) spending the money on a has-been in our national series? Baz is a fine rider, but well beyond his prime (much like Elias), and we're dumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into that program to elevate Baz to potentially a national champion? Meanwhile, our homegrown talent like PJ, Herrin, Wyman etc are often struggling to make it to the next round, not to mention others down the grid with the same talent, but lesser opportunity.
I'm not a Nationalist by any means, but if we're trying to build a US MotoGP champ, this doesn't seem to be the way. Granted, Beubier has a shot now, so we'll see how that works out soon enough. I'd rather look forward. Stop this bagger crap, invest in the youth of the sport, and provide opportunities for MORE people, not stack the deck for one.
That's just me though. And I'll gladly watch the Junior Cup (and mini cup actually) over any of the Superbike races where money often wins over talent.
Pags
I forgot to mention Mesa - among the hardest working privateers in the
game, and fast as shit. And while I think competition certainly improves
the breed, does anyone think beating Baz all of a sudden makes them a
MotoGP candidate? He's a fairly big name and all, but he's never been
consistently a threat in any major series that I'm aware of.
Pags
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 10:19 AM Gene Hunt Twolanefun@outlook.com wrote:
Amazing I'm in such agreement Pags. My first reaction was how about Wyman
and Herin not to mention others coming up. But I would say if he runs up
front and causes others to up their game, well that culd be a good thing
assuming it is on equal terms on the track. - Gene
"I Know a Few Roads"
Patriot Guard Rider
AMA Charter Life Member #598925
Charter Member #166 of the Victory Motorcycle Club
DUCATI.net Member
USDESMO Member #1263
EX-MSF Instructor
EX-President Mid Atlantic Ducati Owners Club
Victory's - 01' V92SC, 04' Kingpin, 16' XC Tour
Ducati's - 02' M900, 13' Diavel
HD - 09' XR1200
From: Tony Pags ajpags@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 10:04 AM
To: Ducati Owners Group ducati@list.ducati.net
Subject: [Ducati] Re: Baz in MotoAmerica - HSBK team
I know I'm likely in the minority here, but really, with the state of the
sport and all the clamoring about how light the grids are etc, why are we
(well, Ducati and Warhorse?) spending the money on a has-been in our
national series? Baz is a fine rider, but well beyond his prime (much like
Elias), and we're dumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into that
program to elevate Baz to potentially a national champion? Meanwhile, our
homegrown talent like PJ, Herrin, Wyman etc are often struggling to make it
to the next round, not to mention others down the grid with the same
talent, but lesser opportunity.
I'm not a Nationalist by any means, but if we're trying to build a US
MotoGP champ, this doesn't seem to be the way. Granted, Beubier has a shot
now, so we'll see how that works out soon enough. I'd rather look
forward. Stop this bagger crap, invest in the youth of the sport, and
provide opportunities for MORE people, not stack the deck for one.
That's just me though. And I'll gladly watch the Junior Cup (and mini cup
actually) over any of the Superbike races where money often wins over
talent.
Pags
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I would assume he is bringing his own sponsors and likely not taking
anything away from anyone. I really doubt he found American sponsors, save
for Ducati maybe who is offering some sort of limited sponsorship that I
would also hope they are offering kyle. Mere educated speculation. And he
elevates the visibility of the series worldwide. What we need is US
companies stepping up to sponsor.
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 7:04 AM Tony Pags ajpags@gmail.com wrote:
I know I'm likely in the minority here, but really, with the state of the
sport and all the clamoring about how light the grids are etc, why are we
(well, Ducati and Warhorse?) spending the money on a has-been in our
national series? Baz is a fine rider, but well beyond his prime (much like
Elias), and we're dumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into that
program to elevate Baz to potentially a national champion? Meanwhile, our
homegrown talent like PJ, Herrin, Wyman etc are often struggling to make it
to the next round, not to mention others down the grid with the same
talent, but lesser opportunity.
I'm not a Nationalist by any means, but if we're trying to build a US
MotoGP champ, this doesn't seem to be the way. Granted, Beubier has a shot
now, so we'll see how that works out soon enough. I'd rather look
forward. Stop this bagger crap, invest in the youth of the sport, and
provide opportunities for MORE people, not stack the deck for one.
That's just me though. And I'll gladly watch the Junior Cup (and mini cup
actually) over any of the Superbike races where money often wins over
talent.
Pags
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*Nabil Kabbani *
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CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This transmittal is a confidential communication,
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Agree with everything Pags says. And I actually felt the same way when Elias was signed. I felt it was actually a bad thing that Elias signed with MotoAmerica. Any WSBK/MotoGP teams considering an up and coming American rider might think "well, he can't even beat a has-been like Elias, how is he going to be beat the best in the world."? When in fact there might be all kinds of reasons that young man couldn't beat Elias. I believe Wayne Rainey said himself that the goal of MotoAmerica was to produce American contenders on the world stage. I don't see how Baz contributes to that goal.
Mario
From: Tony Pags ajpags@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 9:23 AM
To: Ducati Owners Group ducati@list.ducati.net
Subject: [Ducati] Re: Baz in MotoAmerica - HSBK team
I forgot to mention Mesa - among the hardest working privateers in the game, and fast as shit. And while I think competition certainly improves the breed, does anyone think beating Baz all of a sudden makes them a MotoGP candidate? He's a fairly big name and all, but he's never been consistently a threat in any major series that I'm aware of.
Pags
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 10:19 AM Gene Hunt <Twolanefun@outlook.commailto:Twolanefun@outlook.com> wrote:
Amazing I'm in such agreement Pags. My first reaction was how about Wyman and Herin not to mention others coming up. But I would say if he runs up front and causes others to up their game, well that culd be a good thing assuming it is on equal terms on the track. - Gene
"I Know a Few Roads"
Patriot Guard Rider
AMA Charter Life Member #598925
Charter Member #166 of the Victory Motorcycle Club
DUCATI.net Member
USDESMO Member #1263
EX-MSF Instructor
EX-President Mid Atlantic Ducati Owners Club
Victory's - 01' V92SC, 04' Kingpin, 16' XC Tour
Ducati's - 02' M900, 13' Diavel
HD - 09' XR1200
From: Tony Pags <ajpags@gmail.commailto:ajpags@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 10:04 AM
To: Ducati Owners Group <ducati@list.ducati.netmailto:ducati@list.ducati.net>
Subject: [Ducati] Re: Baz in MotoAmerica - HSBK team
I know I'm likely in the minority here, but really, with the state of the sport and all the clamoring about how light the grids are etc, why are we (well, Ducati and Warhorse?) spending the money on a has-been in our national series? Baz is a fine rider, but well beyond his prime (much like Elias), and we're dumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into that program to elevate Baz to potentially a national champion? Meanwhile, our homegrown talent like PJ, Herrin, Wyman etc are often struggling to make it to the next round, not to mention others down the grid with the same talent, but lesser opportunity.
I'm not a Nationalist by any means, but if we're trying to build a US MotoGP champ, this doesn't seem to be the way. Granted, Beubier has a shot now, so we'll see how that works out soon enough. I'd rather look forward. Stop this bagger crap, invest in the youth of the sport, and provide opportunities for MORE people, not stack the deck for one.
That's just me though. And I'll gladly watch the Junior Cup (and mini cup actually) over any of the Superbike races where money often wins over talent.
Pags
To get the links and updates on all today's Ducati news:
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That wouldn't explain North American Warhorse's involvement though -
located about an hour north of me in PA.
Pags
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 10:32 AM nabil kabbani nkabbani@gmail.com wrote:
I would assume he is bringing his own sponsors and likely not taking
anything away from anyone. I really doubt he found American sponsors, save
for Ducati maybe who is offering some sort of limited sponsorship that I
would also hope they are offering kyle. Mere educated speculation. And he
elevates the visibility of the series worldwide. What we need is US
companies stepping up to sponsor.
I'm torn about this.
On the one hand, it's hard to measure the series against the international
competition if you don't have any direct corollaries - Joe Roberts didn't
spend any (/- much?) time in MotoAmerica, and Beaubier is just getting
started - so it would seem there's an incentive to bring folks over who
have experience at that level to establish some benchmarks.
On the other hand, there are scant enough resources in the sport now so
what is the right investment mix to establish credibility but not dilute
the talent pool or raise the price of performance parity so much that less
can participate.
Also, how do you incent racers like Elias and Baz to want to pin a target
on their backs and be the punching bag for a whole series?
Christian
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 9:35 AM Mario Baroz mariobaroz@hotmail.com wrote:
Agree with everything Pags says. And I actually felt the same way when
Elias was signed. I felt it was actually a bad thing that Elias signed
with MotoAmerica. Any WSBK/MotoGP teams considering an up and coming
American rider might think "well, he can't even beat a has-been like Elias,
how is he going to be beat the best in the world."? When in fact there
might be all kinds of reasons that young man couldn't beat Elias. I
believe Wayne Rainey said himself that the goal of MotoAmerica was to
produce American contenders on the world stage. I don't see how Baz
contributes to that goal.
Mario
From: Tony Pags ajpags@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 9:23 AM
To: Ducati Owners Group ducati@list.ducati.net
Subject: [Ducati] Re: Baz in MotoAmerica - HSBK team
I forgot to mention Mesa - among the hardest working privateers in the
game, and fast as shit. And while I think competition certainly improves
the breed, does anyone think beating Baz all of a sudden makes them a
MotoGP candidate? He's a fairly big name and all, but he's never been
consistently a threat in any major series that I'm aware of.
Pags
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 10:19 AM Gene Hunt Twolanefun@outlook.com wrote:
Amazing I'm in such agreement Pags. My first reaction was how about Wyman
and Herin not to mention others coming up. But I would say if he runs up
front and causes others to up their game, well that culd be a good thing
assuming it is on equal terms on the track. - Gene
"I Know a Few Roads"
Patriot Guard Rider
AMA Charter Life Member #598925
Charter Member #166 of the Victory Motorcycle Club
DUCATI.net Member
USDESMO Member #1263
EX-MSF Instructor
EX-President Mid Atlantic Ducati Owners Club
Victory's - 01' V92SC, 04' Kingpin, 16' XC Tour
Ducati's - 02' M900, 13' Diavel
HD - 09' XR1200
From: Tony Pags ajpags@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 10:04 AM
To: Ducati Owners Group ducati@list.ducati.net
Subject: [Ducati] Re: Baz in MotoAmerica - HSBK team
I know I'm likely in the minority here, but really, with the state of the
sport and all the clamoring about how light the grids are etc, why are we
(well, Ducati and Warhorse?) spending the money on a has-been in our
national series? Baz is a fine rider, but well beyond his prime (much like
Elias), and we're dumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into that
program to elevate Baz to potentially a national champion? Meanwhile, our
homegrown talent like PJ, Herrin, Wyman etc are often struggling to make it
to the next round, not to mention others down the grid with the same
talent, but lesser opportunity.
I'm not a Nationalist by any means, but if we're trying to build a US
MotoGP champ, this doesn't seem to be the way. Granted, Beubier has a shot
now, so we'll see how that works out soon enough. I'd rather look
forward. Stop this bagger crap, invest in the youth of the sport, and
provide opportunities for MORE people, not stack the deck for one.
That's just me though. And I'll gladly watch the Junior Cup (and mini cup
actually) over any of the Superbike races where money often wins over
talent.
Pags
To get the links and updates on all today's Ducati news:
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Roberts destroyed the field in Supersport 600 MotoA in like 2015. Won 5 straight in 14 too and before that was a RedBull Rookies Cup guy.
Pags
On Feb 8, 2021, at 7:50 PM, Christian Els ElsC@schnellpc.com wrote:
I'm torn about this.
On the one hand, it's hard to measure the series against the international competition if you don't have any direct corollaries - Joe Roberts didn't spend any (/- much?) time in MotoAmerica, and Beaubier is just getting started - so it would seem there's an incentive to bring folks over who have experience at that level to establish some benchmarks.
On the other hand, there are scant enough resources in the sport now so what is the right investment mix to establish credibility but not dilute the talent pool or raise the price of performance parity so much that less can participate.
Also, how do you incent racers like Elias and Baz to want to pin a target on their backs and be the punching bag for a whole series?
Christian
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 9:35 AM Mario Baroz mariobaroz@hotmail.com wrote:
Agree with everything Pags says. And I actually felt the same way when Elias was signed. I felt it was actually a bad thing that Elias signed with MotoAmerica. Any WSBK/MotoGP teams considering an up and coming American rider might think "well, he can't even beat a has-been like Elias, how is he going to be beat the best in the world."? When in fact there might be all kinds of reasons that young man couldn't beat Elias. I believe Wayne Rainey said himself that the goal of MotoAmerica was to produce American contenders on the world stage. I don't see how Baz contributes to that goal.
Mario
From: Tony Pags ajpags@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 9:23 AM
To: Ducati Owners Group ducati@list.ducati.net
Subject: [Ducati] Re: Baz in MotoAmerica - HSBK team
I forgot to mention Mesa - among the hardest working privateers in the game, and fast as shit. And while I think competition certainly improves the breed, does anyone think beating Baz all of a sudden makes them a MotoGP candidate? He's a fairly big name and all, but he's never been consistently a threat in any major series that I'm aware of.
Pags
On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 10:19 AM Gene Hunt Twolanefun@outlook.com wrote:
Amazing I'm in such agreement Pags. My first reaction was how about Wyman and Herin not to mention others coming up. But I would say if he runs up front and causes others to up their game, well that culd be a good thing assuming it is on equal terms on the track. - Gene
"I Know a Few Roads"
Patriot Guard Rider
AMA Charter Life Member #598925
Charter Member #166 of the Victory Motorcycle Club
DUCATI.net Member
USDESMO Member #1263
EX-MSF Instructor
EX-President Mid Atlantic Ducati Owners Club
Victory's - 01' V92SC, 04' Kingpin, 16' XC Tour
Ducati's - 02' M900, 13' Diavel
HD - 09' XR1200
From: Tony Pags ajpags@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 10:04 AM
To: Ducati Owners Group ducati@list.ducati.net
Subject: [Ducati] Re: Baz in MotoAmerica - HSBK team
I know I'm likely in the minority here, but really, with the state of the sport and all the clamoring about how light the grids are etc, why are we (well, Ducati and Warhorse?) spending the money on a has-been in our national series? Baz is a fine rider, but well beyond his prime (much like Elias), and we're dumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into that program to elevate Baz to potentially a national champion? Meanwhile, our homegrown talent like PJ, Herrin, Wyman etc are often struggling to make it to the next round, not to mention others down the grid with the same talent, but lesser opportunity.
I'm not a Nationalist by any means, but if we're trying to build a US MotoGP champ, this doesn't seem to be the way. Granted, Beubier has a shot now, so we'll see how that works out soon enough. I'd rather look forward. Stop this bagger crap, invest in the youth of the sport, and provide opportunities for MORE people, not stack the deck for one.
That's just me though. And I'll gladly watch the Junior Cup (and mini cup actually) over any of the Superbike races where money often wins over talent.
Pags
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