New Content - St. Michael's Church of Ireland, Castlecaulfield, Donaghmore Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland Baptisms 1771-80
Thanks for that Bobby; so interesting.
Are you aware of who made the assessment of "good behaviour"? A clergyman or RIC constable?
Thanks for this clarification of the differences in stated ages. All the best,
Len
From: Robert Forrest via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Tuesday, 5 October 2021 11:57 PM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com; gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au
Cc: Gordon Wilkinson neredon@ozemail.com.au; Roger Cousens rcousens@unimelb.edu.au; Robert Forrest bobbyforrest63@hotmail.com
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: [EXT] Re: An interesting read
The discrepancy between ages (especially in the older age group) in the ten years between 1901 and 1911 can often be explained by the introduction of Old Age Pensions in 1908.
The Old Age Pensions Act 1908 introduced a non-contributory pension for 'eligible' people aged 70 and over. It came into law in January 1909 across England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland.
To be eligible, applicants had to have an income of less than £31 and 10shillings per annum (£31.50), and had to 'be of good character'.
From: Roger Cousens via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: 05 October 2021 09:26
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com; gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au
Cc: Gordon Wilkinson neredon@ozemail.com.au; Roger Cousens rcousens@unimelb.edu.au
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: [EXT] Re: An interesting read
We have noted such discrepancies in census ages repeated. Does it show the distain they held for the census and authority, or is it simply that they did not pay much attention to birthdays back then? Or when the census man came to call, whover was in the house just guessed at everyone else's age? Back then it was the assessor who filled in the form, not the householder. I can understand losing track of age as one grows older (I have to stop and think!). My mother was always 5 years out in her age, as she had lied to my father when they were courting - she was a widow with two children......
Roger
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From: ECardwell via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 8:17:02 PM
To: gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au; Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: Gordon Wilkinson neredon@ozemail.com.au; ECardwell ecardwell@btinternet.com
Subject: [EXT] [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: An interesting read
External email: Please exercise caution
Highly recommended.
Evelyn Cardwell
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On 5 Oct 2021, at 04:09, Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:
It was a typical Spring day on Friday ... blustery weather with occasional showers, when the eagerly awaited, long anticipated book arrived: Bill Roulston's Researching Farming Ancestors in Ireland. I'm already well into it now, but had barely started, when the author used his own family as an example when discussing Irish Censuses. Researchers, particularly new comers to genealogy, could be interested in his discussion of the census records of his great-great-grandfather. In brief ...
In the 1901 return, the census shows his g-g-grandfather as an unmarried 30-year-old-farmer. Bill then goes on to caution the researcher to always treat ages with caution - even in census returns! Roulston's ancestor, Charles, was in fact 35 in 1901!
Moving on to the 1911 census, Chaarles had married and his age in the Census was given as 50, when it should have been 45!! (He hadn't aged 20 years in 10). His wife was suposedly aged 30, when in fact she was 33, so what appeared to be a 20-year age gap between them was in reality 13 years!
(ref: para 2.3.2 Census Returns 1901-11; Household Return (Form A), p27-8)
'Nuf said.
Enjoy, Gordon
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Gee, can't believe our ancestors might have "cheated" a little to obtain a
pension!!
Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario
On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 8:57 AM Robert Forrest via CoTyroneList <
cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:
The discrepancy between ages (especially in the older age group) in the
ten years between 1901 and 1911 can often be explained by the introduction
of Old Age Pensions in 1908.
The Old Age Pensions Act 1908 introduced a non-contributory pension for
'eligible' people aged 70 and over. It came into law in January 1909 across
England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland.
To be eligible, applicants had to have an income of less than £31 and
10shillings per annum (£31.50), and had to 'be of good character'.
From: Roger Cousens via CoTyroneList <
cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Sent: 05 October 2021 09:26
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List <
cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>; gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au <
gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au>
Cc: Gordon Wilkinson neredon@ozemail.com.au; Roger Cousens <
rcousens@unimelb.edu.au>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: [EXT] Re: An interesting read
We have noted such discrepancies in census ages repeated. Does it show
the distain they held for the census and authority, or is it simply that
they did not pay much attention to birthdays back then? Or when the census
man came to call, whover was in the house just guessed at everyone else's
age? Back then it was the assessor who filled in the form, not the
householder. I can understand losing track of age as one grows older (I
have to stop and think!). My mother was always 5 years out in her age, as
she had lied to my father when they were courting - she was a widow with
two children......
Roger
Get Outlook for Android https://aka.ms/ghei36
From: ECardwell via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 8:17:02 PM
To: gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au;
Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: Gordon Wilkinson neredon@ozemail.com.au; ECardwell <
ecardwell@btinternet.com>
Subject: [EXT] [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: An interesting read
- External email: Please exercise caution *
Highly recommended.
Evelyn Cardwell
Get BlueMail for Android https://bluemail.me
On 5 Oct 2021, at 04:09, Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList <
cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:
It was a typical Spring day on Friday ... blustery weather with occasional
showers, when the eagerly awaited, long anticipated book arrived: Bill
Roulston's Researching Farming Ancestors in Ireland. I'm already well
into it now, but had barely started, when the author used his own family as
an example when discussing Irish Censuses. Researchers, particularly new
comers to genealogy, could be interested in his discussion of the census
records of his great-great-grandfather. In brief ...
In the 1901 return, the census shows his g-g-grandfather as an unmarried
30-year-old-farmer. Bill then goes on to caution the researcher to always
treat ages with caution - even in census returns! Roulston's ancestor,
Charles, was in fact 35 in 1901!
Moving on to the 1911 census, Chaarles had married and his age in the
Census was given as 50, when it should have been 45!! (He hadn't aged 20
years in 10). His wife was suposedly aged 30, when in fact she was 33, so
what appeared to be a 20-year age gap between them was in reality 13 years!
(ref: para 2.3.2 Census Returns 1901-11; Household Return (Form A),
p27-8)
'Nuf said.
Enjoy, Gordon
Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
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Lie about age?
My Grandmother, Sarah Jackson (Fermanagh) came to the US in 1910. Her older sister Rebecca Jackson came to the US in 1908.
They came on the same ship, same date exactly two years apart. Both ladies were 5 years younger when they got off the ship then when they got on.
Years later Rebecca’s family said they never knew how old their mother was.
In the case of Sarah she had a number of ages.
I was lucky enough to know both these ladies since I am older. We lived at Sarahs house in Atlantic City during WW2 while my father was away at war. My mother later recounted a number of times Sarah stated her age – incorrectly.
Sarah’s husband died before her and she had the tombstone made with her name and date of birth on it. When she died the receipt for the tombstone was found among her things with the corner torn off where her date of birth appeared.
It was a lousy snowy day when we went to the cemetery and so bad she couldn’t be buried. Services were held in a crypt then the funeral director thought we were all crazy when we wanted to go through the snowstorm to see the tombstone.
It said 1882 and that was correct. I have later done all the research on that family.
Her mother was Mary Ann McCoy, 1843-1892, born Co Tyrone, Married William Jackson 28 Oct 1868 Bar Church, Co Tyrone
They had 8 children. 5 came to the US, ( I have a picture of them together), 3 stayed in Ireland.
Always happy to share any information
From: James McKane via
CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2021 8:17 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: Gordon Wilkinson neredon@ozemail.com.au; Roger Cousens rcousens@unimelb.edu.au; James McKane jamckane@gmail.com
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: [EXT] Re: An interesting read
Gee, can't believe our ancestors might have "cheated" a little to obtain a pension!!
Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario
On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 8:57 AM Robert Forrest via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com > wrote:
The discrepancy between ages (especially in the older age group) in the ten years between 1901 and 1911 can often be explained by the introduction of Old Age Pensions in 1908.
The Old Age Pensions Act 1908 introduced a non-contributory pension for 'eligible' people aged 70 and over. It came into law in January 1909 across England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland.
To be eligible, applicants had to have an income of less than £31 and 10shillings per annum (£31.50), and had to 'be of good character'.
From: Roger Cousens via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com >
Sent: 05 October 2021 09:26
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com >; gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au mailto:gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au <gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au mailto:gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au >
Cc: Gordon Wilkinson <neredon@ozemail.com.au mailto:neredon@ozemail.com.au >; Roger Cousens <rcousens@unimelb.edu.au mailto:rcousens@unimelb.edu.au >
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: [EXT] Re: An interesting read
We have noted such discrepancies in census ages repeated. Does it show the distain they held for the census and authority, or is it simply that they did not pay much attention to birthdays back then? Or when the census man came to call, whover was in the house just guessed at everyone else's age? Back then it was the assessor who filled in the form, not the householder. I can understand losing track of age as one grows older (I have to stop and think!). My mother was always 5 years out in her age, as she had lied to my father when they were courting - she was a widow with two children......
Roger
Get Outlook for Android https://aka.ms/ghei36
From: ECardwell via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com >
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 8:17:02 PM
To: gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au mailto:gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au <gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au mailto:gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au >; Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com >
Cc: Gordon Wilkinson <neredon@ozemail.com.au mailto:neredon@ozemail.com.au >; ECardwell <ecardwell@btinternet.com mailto:ecardwell@btinternet.com >
Subject: [EXT] [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: An interesting read
External email: Please exercise caution
Highly recommended.
Evelyn Cardwell
Get BlueMail for Android https://bluemail.me
On 5 Oct 2021, at 04:09, Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com > wrote:
It was a typical Spring day on Friday ... blustery weather with occasional showers, when the eagerly awaited, long anticipated book arrived: Bill Roulston's Researching Farming Ancestors in Ireland. I'm already well into it now, but had barely started, when the author used his own family as an example when discussing Irish Censuses. Researchers, particularly new comers to genealogy, could be interested in his discussion of the census records of his great-great-grandfather. In brief ...
In the 1901 return, the census shows his g-g-grandfather as an unmarried 30-year-old-farmer. Bill then goes on to caution the researcher to always treat ages with caution - even in census returns! Roulston's ancestor, Charles, was in fact 35 in 1901!
Moving on to the 1911 census, Chaarles had married and his age in the Census was given as 50, when it should have been 45!! (He hadn't aged 20 years in 10). His wife was suposedly aged 30, when in fact she was 33, so what appeared to be a 20-year age gap between them was in reality 13 years!
(ref: para 2.3.2 Census Returns 1901-11; Household Return (Form A), p27-8)
'Nuf said.
Enjoy, Gordon
Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneirelandcom mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
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On 6/10/2021 1:35 am, john Hogg via CoTyroneList wrote:
Lie about age?
My Grandmother, Sarah Jackson (Fermanagh) came to the US in 1910.Her
older sister Rebecca Jackson came to the US in 1908.
They came on the same ship, same date exactly two years apart.Both
ladies were 5 years younger when they got off the ship then when they
got on.
Nice to hear that the trans-Atlantic crossing wiped off a few years off
your grandmother and grand aunt, John. Many who have braved the
notoriously rough crossing claim it adds years. 😁😁😁
We have also learnt not to trust ages on gravestones…. If someone dies of old age, their relatives may not know the exact DOB. In Ontario, where our Irish relatives moved to, gravestones seem to have been put up several years later, such as when another family member dies. Or perhaps the mason makes an error! In one case, there was a 10 year error compared with the Irish church birth records, but we are certain that it is the right person.
From: Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Wednesday, 6 October 2021 3:56 PM
To: cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: Gordon Wilkinson neredon@ozemail.com.au
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: [EXT] Re: An interesting read
External email: Please exercise caution
On 6/10/2021 1:35 am, john Hogg via CoTyroneList wrote:
Lie about age?
My Grandmother, Sarah Jackson (Fermanagh) came to the US in 1910. Her older sister Rebecca Jackson came to the US in 1908.
They came on the same ship, same date exactly two years apart. Both ladies were 5 years younger when they got off the ship then when they got on.
Nice to hear that the trans-Atlantic crossing wiped off a few years off your grandmother and grand aunt, John. Many who have braved the notoriously rough crossing claim it adds years. 😁😁😁
Thanks for that Bobby; so interesting.
Are you aware of who made the assessment of "good behaviour"? A clergyman or RIC constable?
Thanks for this clarification of the differences in stated ages. All the best,
Len
The discrepancy between ages (especially in the older age group) in the ten years between 1901 and 1911 can often be explained by the introduction of Old Age Pensions in 1908.
The Old Age Pensions Act 1908 introduced a non-contributory pension for 'eligible' people aged 70 and over. It came into law in January 1909 across England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland.
To be eligible, applicants had to have an income of less than £31 and 10shillings per annum (£31.50), and had to 'be of good character'.
From: Robert Forrest via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Tuesday, 5 October 2021 11:57 PM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com; gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au
Cc: Gordon Wilkinson neredon@ozemail.com.au; Roger Cousens rcousens@unimelb.edu.au; Robert Forrest bobbyforrest63@hotmail.com
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: [EXT] Re: An interesting read
The discrepancy between ages (especially in the older age group) in the ten years between 1901 and 1911 can often be explained by the introduction of Old Age Pensions in 1908.
The Old Age Pensions Act 1908 introduced a non-contributory pension for 'eligible' people aged 70 and over. It came into law in January 1909 across England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland.
To be eligible, applicants had to have an income of less than £31 and 10shillings per annum (£31.50), and had to 'be of good character'.
From: Roger Cousens via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: 05 October 2021 09:26
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com; gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au
Cc: Gordon Wilkinson neredon@ozemail.com.au; Roger Cousens rcousens@unimelb.edu.au
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: [EXT] Re: An interesting read
We have noted such discrepancies in census ages repeated. Does it show the distain they held for the census and authority, or is it simply that they did not pay much attention to birthdays back then? Or when the census man came to call, whover was in the house just guessed at everyone else's age? Back then it was the assessor who filled in the form, not the householder. I can understand losing track of age as one grows older (I have to stop and think!). My mother was always 5 years out in her age, as she had lied to my father when they were courting - she was a widow with two children......
Roger
Get Outlook for Androidhttps://aka.ms/ghei36
From: ECardwell via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 8:17:02 PM
To: gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au gordon.wilkinson@ozemail.com.au; Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: Gordon Wilkinson neredon@ozemail.com.au; ECardwell ecardwell@btinternet.com
Subject: [EXT] [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: An interesting read
External email: Please exercise caution
Highly recommended.
Evelyn Cardwell
Get BlueMail for Androidhttps://bluemail.me
On 5 Oct 2021, at 04:09, Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:
It was a typical Spring day on Friday ... blustery weather with occasional showers, when the eagerly awaited, long anticipated book arrived: Bill Roulston's Researching Farming Ancestors in Ireland. I'm already well into it now, but had barely started, when the author used his own family as an example when discussing Irish Censuses. Researchers, particularly new comers to genealogy, could be interested in his discussion of the census records of his great-great-grandfather. In brief ...
In the 1901 return, the census shows his g-g-grandfather as an unmarried 30-year-old-farmer. Bill then goes on to caution the researcher to always treat ages with caution - even in census returns! Roulston's ancestor, Charles, was in fact 35 in 1901!
Moving on to the 1911 census, Chaarles had married and his age in the Census was given as 50, when it should have been 45!! (He hadn't aged 20 years in 10). His wife was suposedly aged 30, when in fact she was 33, so what appeared to be a 20-year age gap between them was in reality 13 years!
(ref: para 2.3.2 Census Returns 1901-11; Household Return (Form A), p27-8)
'Nuf said.
Enjoy, Gordon
Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
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