Hi everyone, I've been watching in awe as place names have been excavated by the knowledgeable community of the CoTyroneList. So I thought I'd ask the group for thoughts on identifying a place name that's got me stuck. In 1838, the John Hagan who I am fairly certain is (one of) my county Tyrone immigrant ancestor(s) to the US reported he was born in "Barnen" when completing his naturalization paperwork. He signed the paperwork with the mark X, so this would have been the way in which the clerk heard him pronounce his birth place. [image: Screenshot 2024-02-27 at 22.04.08.png] [image: Screenshot 2024-02-27 at 21.34.48.png] I've scoured Griffith's Valuation, the wonderful townlands list, and old and current maps, and I've found no match. I've listened to all sorts of video tutorials on pronouncing words, and specifically place names, in Irish and Gaelic. I've considered Barran in Donaghedy parish, Bearney Glebe in Camus parish, and Breen in Ardstaw parish, but none feel like they're right. I've wondered if he said he was from the "Barony of" X and "Barnen" was how it got written down. I've even mused on whether he might have said he was born in Strabane and the English-speaking clerk who was himself of German origin completely misunderstood him. Based on a cluster of DNA matches, I once felt certain that this ancestor's family settled in the area of Strabane and Sion Mills, possibly after he himself had left for the US. However, as I've learned more about DNA, I can see there's a good chance this cluster is a result of endogamy. So many Hagans and O'Hagans in Ulster! Does anyone happen to recognize Barnen as a place name, or the pronunciation of a place name? (Perhaps a pronunciation of one of the places I've listed above?) With many, many thanks for any brainstorms and leads, Yours, Robin robin.dennis@gmail.com

Hi Robin - using the Place Name Index at https://www.cotyroneireland.com/places/placeindex.html you will see a place named Barran in Donaghedy Parish which would be the closest I can find?? Jim Jim McKane Kitchener, Ontario On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 5:07 PM robin dennis via CoTyroneList < cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I've been watching in awe as place names have been excavated by the > knowledgeable community of the CoTyroneList. So I thought I'd ask the group > for thoughts on identifying a place name that's got me stuck. > > In 1838, the John Hagan who I am fairly certain is (one of) my county > Tyrone immigrant ancestor(s) to the US reported he was born in "Barnen" > when completing his naturalization paperwork. He signed the paperwork with > the mark X, so this would have been the way in which the clerk heard him > pronounce his birth place. > > [image: Screenshot 2024-02-27 at 22.04.08.png] > > [image: Screenshot 2024-02-27 at 21.34.48.png] > > I've scoured Griffith's Valuation, the wonderful townlands list, and old > and current maps, and I've found no match. I've listened to all sorts of > video tutorials on pronouncing words, and specifically place names, in > Irish and Gaelic. I've considered Barran in Donaghedy parish, Bearney Glebe > in Camus parish, and Breen in Ardstaw parish, but none feel like they're > right. I've wondered if he said he was from the "Barony of" X and "Barnen" > was how it got written down. > > I've even mused on whether he might have said he was born in Strabane and > the English-speaking clerk who was himself of German origin completely > misunderstood him. Based on a cluster of DNA matches, I once felt certain > that this ancestor's family settled in the area of Strabane and Sion Mills, > possibly after he himself had left for the US. However, as I've learned > more about DNA, I can see there's a good chance this cluster is a result of > endogamy. So many Hagans and O'Hagans in Ulster! > > Does anyone happen to recognize Barnen as a place name, or the > pronunciation of a place name? (Perhaps a pronunciation of one of the > places I've listed above?) > > With many, many thanks for any brainstorms and leads, > Yours, > Robin > robin.dennis@gmail.com > > ================================= > Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com > List Archive - > https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com > Join the list by sending an email to - > cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com > To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com > Unsubscribe by sending an email to - > cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com > =================================

Thank you -- that's two votes for Barran! Barran was on my list of candidates, but I wasn't confident that it would be pronounced to sound like Barnen, and I felt far more confident in reading that. All best, r. On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, 23:43 James McKane via CoTyroneList, < cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > Hi Robin - using the Place Name Index at > https://www.cotyroneireland.com/places/placeindex.html > you will see a place named Barran in Donaghedy Parish which would be the > closest I can find?? > > Jim > > Jim McKane > Kitchener, Ontario > > > On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 5:07 PM robin dennis via CoTyroneList < > cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> >> I've been watching in awe as place names have been excavated by the >> knowledgeable community of the CoTyroneList. So I thought I'd ask the group >> for thoughts on identifying a place name that's got me stuck. >> >> In 1838, the John Hagan who I am fairly certain is (one of) my county >> Tyrone immigrant ancestor(s) to the US reported he was born in "Barnen" >> when completing his naturalization paperwork. He signed the paperwork with >> the mark X, so this would have been the way in which the clerk heard him >> pronounce his birth place. >> >> [image: Screenshot 2024-02-27 at 22.04.08.png] >> >> [image: Screenshot 2024-02-27 at 21.34.48.png] >> >> I've scoured Griffith's Valuation, the wonderful townlands list, and old >> and current maps, and I've found no match. I've listened to all sorts of >> video tutorials on pronouncing words, and specifically place names, in >> Irish and Gaelic. I've considered Barran in Donaghedy parish, Bearney Glebe >> in Camus parish, and Breen in Ardstaw parish, but none feel like they're >> right. I've wondered if he said he was from the "Barony of" X and "Barnen" >> was how it got written down. >> >> I've even mused on whether he might have said he was born in Strabane and >> the English-speaking clerk who was himself of German origin completely >> misunderstood him. Based on a cluster of DNA matches, I once felt certain >> that this ancestor's family settled in the area of Strabane and Sion Mills, >> possibly after he himself had left for the US. However, as I've learned >> more about DNA, I can see there's a good chance this cluster is a result of >> endogamy. So many Hagans and O'Hagans in Ulster! >> >> Does anyone happen to recognize Barnen as a place name, or the >> pronunciation of a place name? (Perhaps a pronunciation of one of the >> places I've listed above?) >> >> With many, many thanks for any brainstorms and leads, >> Yours, >> Robin >> robin.dennis@gmail.com >> >> ================================= >> Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com >> List Archive - >> https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com >> Join the list by sending an email to - >> cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com >> To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com >> Unsubscribe by sending an email to - >> cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com >> ================================= > > ================================= > Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com > List Archive - > https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com > Join the list by sending an email to - > cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com > To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com > Unsubscribe by sending an email to - > cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com > =================================

Robin, I have serious doubts that the location you are seeking is actually Barran; to the ear of a US clerk he would have been hearing BARRN not Barnen. You will find the townland of Barran in in the civil parish of Donagheady. Referring to Griffiths Valuation of the parish (1858), only one Hagen is recorded (Daniel Hagan in Meendamph) Index to Griffiths Valuation of Donaghedy Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland (cotyroneireland.com)<https://www.cotyroneireland.com/griffith/donagheady.html> Barnen may be a sub-denomination (an area within a townland) or an abbreviation. You haven’t indicated any dates or religion: Donagheady Church of Ireland and Presbyterian registers have been transcribed Donagheady Parish Records, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland (cotyroneireland.com)<https://cotyroneireland.com/menus/donagheady2.html> and Catholic online registers (NLI, Dublin) Donaghedy, Derry - Catholic Parish Registers at the NLI<https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0361> It will assist your search to locate any Hagan/ Hagen entries. Good luck, Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia ________________________________ From: robin dennis via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> Sent: Wednesday, 28 February 2024 5:57 PM To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> Cc: robin dennis <robin.dennis@gmail.com> Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: Barnen: elusive or erroneous place name? Thank you -- that's two votes for Barran! Barran was on my list of candidates, but I wasn't confident that it would be pronounced to sound like Barnen, and I felt far more confident in reading that. All best, r. On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, 23:43 James McKane via CoTyroneList, <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>> wrote: Hi Robin - using the Place Name Index at https://www.cotyroneireland.com/places/placeindex.html you will see a place named Barran in Donaghedy Parish which would be the closest I can find?? Jim Jim McKane Kitchener, Ontario On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 5:07 PM robin dennis via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>> wrote: Hi everyone, I've been watching in awe as place names have been excavated by the knowledgeable community of the CoTyroneList. So I thought I'd ask the group for thoughts on identifying a place name that's got me stuck. In 1838, the John Hagan who I am fairly certain is (one of) my county Tyrone immigrant ancestor(s) to the US reported he was born in "Barnen" when completing his naturalization paperwork. He signed the paperwork with the mark X, so this would have been the way in which the clerk heard him pronounce his birth place. [Screenshot 2024-02-27 at 22.04.08.png] [Screenshot 2024-02-27 at 21.34.48.png] I've scoured Griffith's Valuation, the wonderful townlands list, and old and current maps, and I've found no match. I've listened to all sorts of video tutorials on pronouncing words, and specifically place names, in Irish and Gaelic. I've considered Barran in Donaghedy parish, Bearney Glebe in Camus parish, and Breen in Ardstaw parish, but none feel like they're right. I've wondered if he said he was from the "Barony of" X and "Barnen" was how it got written down. I've even mused on whether he might have said he was born in Strabane and the English-speaking clerk who was himself of German origin completely misunderstood him. Based on a cluster of DNA matches, I once felt certain that this ancestor's family settled in the area of Strabane and Sion Mills, possibly after he himself had left for the US. However, as I've learned more about DNA, I can see there's a good chance this cluster is a result of endogamy. So many Hagans and O'Hagans in Ulster! Does anyone happen to recognize Barnen as a place name, or the pronunciation of a place name? (Perhaps a pronunciation of one of the places I've listed above?) With many, many thanks for any brainstorms and leads, Yours, Robin robin.dennis@gmail.com<mailto:robin.dennis@gmail.com> ================================= Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> List Archive - https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com Join the list by sending an email to - cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com> To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com<mailto:jamckane@gmail.com> Unsubscribe by sending an email to - cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com> ================================= ================================= Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> List Archive - https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com Join the list by sending an email to - cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com> To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com<mailto:jamckane@gmail.com> Unsubscribe by sending an email to - cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com> =================================

Hi Len, Thanks for your ear analysis. As I said, I didn't feel Barran would have been right based on what I'd learned about pronunciations (and from pestering my Irish friends here in London!). Date of immigration was summer 1836. This paperwork was 1838. My Hagans were Catholic (based on religious association in the US), so Church of Ireland and Presbyterian records are less likely to help me, and with this early immigration year, there are very few Catholic records surviving. But you've encouraged me and I'll try again! With many thanks, r. On Thu, 29 Feb 2024, 11:44 Len Swindley via CoTyroneList, < cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > Robin, > > I have serious doubts that the location you are seeking is actually > Barran; to the ear of a US clerk he would have been hearing BARRN not > Barnen. You will find the townland of Barran in in the civil parish of > Donagheady. Referring to Griffiths Valuation of the parish (1858), only one > Hagen is recorded (Daniel Hagan in Meendamph) Index to Griffiths > Valuation of Donaghedy Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland > (cotyroneireland.com) > <https://www.cotyroneireland.com/griffith/donagheady.html> Barnen may be > a sub-denomination (an area within a townland) or an abbreviation. > > You haven’t indicated any dates or religion: Donagheady Church of Ireland > and Presbyterian registers have been transcribed Donagheady Parish > Records, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland (cotyroneireland.com) > <https://cotyroneireland.com/menus/donagheady2.html> and Catholic online > registers (NLI, Dublin) Donaghedy, Derry - Catholic Parish Registers at > the NLI <https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0361> It will assist your > search to locate any Hagan/ Hagen entries. > > Good luck, > > Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia > ------------------------------ > *From:* robin dennis via CoTyroneList < > cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> > *Sent:* Wednesday, 28 February 2024 5:57 PM > *To:* CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List < > cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> > *Cc:* robin dennis <robin.dennis@gmail.com> > *Subject:* [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: Barnen: elusive or erroneous place > name? > > Thank you -- that's two votes for Barran! > > Barran was on my list of candidates, but I wasn't confident that it would > be pronounced to sound like Barnen, and I felt far more confident in > reading that. > > All best, > r. > > On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, 23:43 James McKane via CoTyroneList, < > cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > > Hi Robin - using the Place Name Index at > https://www.cotyroneireland.com/places/placeindex.html > you will see a place named Barran in Donaghedy Parish which would be the > closest I can find?? > > Jim > > Jim McKane > Kitchener, Ontario > > > On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 5:07 PM robin dennis via CoTyroneList < > cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I've been watching in awe as place names have been excavated by the > knowledgeable community of the CoTyroneList. So I thought I'd ask the group > for thoughts on identifying a place name that's got me stuck. > > In 1838, the John Hagan who I am fairly certain is (one of) my county > Tyrone immigrant ancestor(s) to the US reported he was born in "Barnen" > when completing his naturalization paperwork. He signed the paperwork with > the mark X, so this would have been the way in which the clerk heard him > pronounce his birth place. > > [image: Screenshot 2024-02-27 at 22.04.08.png] > > [image: Screenshot 2024-02-27 at 21.34.48.png] > > I've scoured Griffith's Valuation, the wonderful townlands list, and old > and current maps, and I've found no match. I've listened to all sorts of > video tutorials on pronouncing words, and specifically place names, in > Irish and Gaelic. I've considered Barran in Donaghedy parish, Bearney Glebe > in Camus parish, and Breen in Ardstaw parish, but none feel like they're > right. I've wondered if he said he was from the "Barony of" X and "Barnen" > was how it got written down. > > I've even mused on whether he might have said he was born in Strabane and > the English-speaking clerk who was himself of German origin completely > misunderstood him. Based on a cluster of DNA matches, I once felt certain > that this ancestor's family settled in the area of Strabane and Sion Mills, > possibly after he himself had left for the US. However, as I've learned > more about DNA, I can see there's a good chance this cluster is a result of > endogamy. So many Hagans and O'Hagans in Ulster! > > Does anyone happen to recognize Barnen as a place name, or the > pronunciation of a place name? (Perhaps a pronunciation of one of the > places I've listed above?) > > With many, many thanks for any brainstorms and leads, > Yours, > Robin > robin.dennis@gmail.com > > ================================= > Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com > List Archive - > https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com > Join the list by sending an email to - > cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com > To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com > Unsubscribe by sending an email to - > cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com > ================================= > > ================================= > Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com > List Archive - > https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com > Join the list by sending an email to - > cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com > To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com > Unsubscribe by sending an email to - > cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com > ================================= > > ================================= > Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com > List Archive - > https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com > Join the list by sending an email to - > cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com > To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com > Unsubscribe by sending an email to - > cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com > =================================