Empathy List Archives

JM

James McKane

Mon, Sep 11, 2023 12:40 PM

Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630
https://www.cotyroneireland.com/criminals/summonister1630.html

Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!

Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario

Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630 <https://www.cotyroneireland.com/criminals/summonister1630.html> Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI! Jim McKane Kitchener, Ontario

T

tchamberswi@gmail.com

Mon, Sep 11, 2023 11:54 PM

I see a George Chambers on the “jury”. Where would this have taken place?

Thanks

Tom Chambers

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 11, 2023, at 7:41 AM, James McKane via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:

Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630

Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!

Jim McKane

Kitchener, Ontario

Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
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D

dm60@mweb.co.za

Tue, Sep 12, 2023 9:20 AM

Dear All.

Thanks Jim and Len for uploading these wonderful snippets.

A question for our learned colleagues ......

Who played what role on the Summonister Rolls .... ?

Let me start by suggesting a definition. Is this correct, or can we improve on this?

"A summonister may be described as a court officer who called people to attend a court hearing, or who collected the fines payable by folks who failed to attend when summoned, or who were fined for any other non-attendance or misdemeanour."

Now let's look again at the Summonister Roll snippets that Len has so kindly transcribed ...

* Some men were described in polite terms, viz. Esq. [Esquire], J.P. [Justice of the Peace], Provost of Strabane , even as High Sheriff. 
* Others were admonished with "fined for non-attendance" , or described as "felon" .... (Ouch!)

So who were the "good guys" (e.g. doing jury duty) and who the bad guys? (Just as well no "yellow card" and "red card" systems in those days for chirping the ref. or colliding head-on in a tackle.)

What interests me also is the impression I get that some of the J.P.'s (for example) were able to draw their stipends for 2 days and offset these income receipts against fines payable by them, or vice versa -- which smacks of fudging the fiscus in some way! Is this a fair conclusion?

Warm regards

Dave Mitchell

From: "James McKane via CoTyroneList" cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
To: "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List" cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: "James McKane" jamckane@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, 11 September, 2023 14:40:18
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] New Content - Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630

[ https://www.cotyroneireland.com/criminals/summonister1630.html | Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630 ]
Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!

Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario

Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
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Dear All. Thanks Jim and Len for uploading these wonderful snippets. A question for our learned colleagues ...... Who played what role on the Summonister Rolls .... ? Let me start by suggesting a definition. Is this correct, or can we improve on this? "A summonister may be described as a court officer who called people to attend a court hearing, or who collected the fines payable by folks who failed to attend when summoned, or who were fined for any other non-attendance or misdemeanour." Now let's look again at the Summonister Roll snippets that Len has so kindly transcribed ... * Some men were described in polite terms, viz. Esq. [Esquire], J.P. [Justice of the Peace], Provost of Strabane , even as High Sheriff. * Others were admonished with "fined for non-attendance" , or described as "felon" .... (Ouch!) So who were the "good guys" (e.g. doing jury duty) and who the bad guys? (Just as well no "yellow card" and "red card" systems in those days for chirping the ref. or colliding head-on in a tackle.) What interests me also is the impression I get that some of the J.P.'s (for example) were able to draw their stipends for 2 days and offset these income receipts against fines payable by them, or vice versa -- which smacks of fudging the fiscus in some way! Is this a fair conclusion? Warm regards Dave Mitchell From: "James McKane via CoTyroneList" <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> To: "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List" <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> Cc: "James McKane" <jamckane@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, 11 September, 2023 14:40:18 Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] New Content - Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630 [ https://www.cotyroneireland.com/criminals/summonister1630.html | Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630 ] Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI! Jim McKane Kitchener, Ontario ================================= Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com List Archive - https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com Join the list by sending an email to - cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to - cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com =================================

LS

Len Swindley

Wed, Sep 13, 2023 8:24 AM

Tom,

The location is not recorded; I purposefully supply the digitised typescript copy as the details are sketchy at best as queries will surely arise, but this is the best we shall find from this very early period. Omagh was the Assize town for Co Tyrone and I would hazard a guess that the court was held in Omagh. Further suggestions accepted.

Regards,
Len Swindley

From: Tom Chambers via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Tuesday, 12 September 2023 9:54 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: tchamberswi@gmail.com tchamberswi@gmail.com
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: New Content - Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630

I see a George Chambers on the ?jury?. Where would this have taken place?

Thanks
Tom Chambers

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 11, 2023, at 7:41 AM, James McKane via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:

?
Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630https://www.cotyroneireland.com/criminals/summonister1630.html

Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!

Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario

Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
List Archive - https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com
Join the list by sending an email to - cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com
To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com
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Tom, The location is not recorded; I purposefully supply the digitised typescript copy as the details are sketchy at best as queries will surely arise, but this is the best we shall find from this very early period. Omagh was the Assize town for Co Tyrone and I would hazard a guess that the court was held in Omagh. Further suggestions accepted. Regards, Len Swindley ________________________________ From: Tom Chambers via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> Sent: Tuesday, 12 September 2023 9:54 AM To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> Cc: tchamberswi@gmail.com <tchamberswi@gmail.com> Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: New Content - Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630 I see a George Chambers on the ?jury?. Where would this have taken place? Thanks Tom Chambers Sent from my iPhone On Sep 11, 2023, at 7:41 AM, James McKane via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote: ? Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630<https://www.cotyroneireland.com/criminals/summonister1630.html> Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI! Jim McKane Kitchener, Ontario ================================= Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com List Archive - https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com Join the list by sending an email to - cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to - cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com ================================= ================================= Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com List Archive - https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com Join the list by sending an email to - cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to - cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com =================================

LS

Len Swindley

Wed, Sep 13, 2023 12:04 PM

The Summonister Rolls are interesting in that they record the names and addresses of hundreds of Ulster folk in the period 1611 through to 1684. An informative blog concerning these records by Bobby Forrest can be found here Summonister court records (ulstergenealogyandlocalhistoryblog.com)http://www.ulstergenealogyandlocalhistoryblog.com/2017/07/summonister-court-records.html I have been fortunate to find an ancestor, Robert Arbuckle, fined for non-attendance at court recorded as residing at Loughneas, Leckpatrick parish in 1633.
Regards,
Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia

From: dm60--- via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Tuesday, 12 September 2023 7:20 PM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: dm60@mweb.co.za dm60@mweb.co.za
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: New Content - Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630

Dear All.

Thanks Jim and Len for uploading these wonderful snippets.

A question for our learned colleagues ......

Who played what role on the Summonister Rolls ....?

Let me start by suggesting a definition. Is this correct, or can we improve on this?

"A summonister may be described as a court officer who called people to attend a court hearing, or who collected the fines payable by folks who failed to attend when summoned, or who were fined for any other non-attendance or misdemeanour."

Now let's look again at the Summonister Roll snippets that Len has so kindly transcribed ...

Some men were described in polite terms, viz. Esq. [Esquire], J.P. [Justice of the Peace], Provost of Strabane, even as High Sheriff.
Others were admonished with "fined for non-attendance", or described as "felon" .... (Ouch!)

So who were the "good guys" (e.g. doing jury duty) and who the bad guys? (Just as well no "yellow card" and "red card" systems in those days for chirping the ref. or colliding head-on in a tackle.)

What interests me also is the impression I get that some of the J.P.'s (for example) were able to draw their stipends for 2 days and offset these income receipts against fines payable by them, or vice versa -- which smacks of fudging the fiscus in some way! Is this a fair conclusion?

Warm regards

Dave Mitchell

From: "James McKane via CoTyroneList" cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
To: "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List" cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: "James McKane" jamckane@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, 11 September, 2023 14:40:18
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] New Content - Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630

Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630https://www.cotyroneireland.com/criminals/summonister1630.html
Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!

Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario

Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
List Archive - https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com
Join the list by sending an email to - cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com
To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com
Unsubscribe by sending an email to - cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com

The Summonister Rolls are interesting in that they record the names and addresses of hundreds of Ulster folk in the period 1611 through to 1684. An informative blog concerning these records by Bobby Forrest can be found here Summonister court records (ulstergenealogyandlocalhistoryblog.com)<http://www.ulstergenealogyandlocalhistoryblog.com/2017/07/summonister-court-records.html> I have been fortunate to find an ancestor, Robert Arbuckle, fined for non-attendance at court recorded as residing at Loughneas, Leckpatrick parish in 1633. Regards, Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia ________________________________ From: dm60--- via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> Sent: Tuesday, 12 September 2023 7:20 PM To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> Cc: dm60@mweb.co.za <dm60@mweb.co.za> Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: New Content - Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630 Dear All. Thanks Jim and Len for uploading these wonderful snippets. A question for our learned colleagues ...... Who played what role on the Summonister Rolls ....? Let me start by suggesting a definition. Is this correct, or can we improve on this? "A summonister may be described as a court officer who called people to attend a court hearing, or who collected the fines payable by folks who failed to attend when summoned, or who were fined for any other non-attendance or misdemeanour." Now let's look again at the Summonister Roll snippets that Len has so kindly transcribed ... * Some men were described in polite terms, viz. Esq. [Esquire], J.P. [Justice of the Peace], Provost of Strabane, even as High Sheriff. * Others were admonished with "fined for non-attendance", or described as "felon" .... (Ouch!) So who were the "good guys" (e.g. doing jury duty) and who the bad guys? (Just as well no "yellow card" and "red card" systems in those days for chirping the ref. or colliding head-on in a tackle.) What interests me also is the impression I get that some of the J.P.'s (for example) were able to draw their stipends for 2 days and offset these income receipts against fines payable by them, or vice versa -- which smacks of fudging the fiscus in some way! Is this a fair conclusion? Warm regards Dave Mitchell ________________________________ From: "James McKane via CoTyroneList" <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> To: "CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List" <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> Cc: "James McKane" <jamckane@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, 11 September, 2023 14:40:18 Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] New Content - Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630 Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630<https://www.cotyroneireland.com/criminals/summonister1630.html> Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI! Jim McKane Kitchener, Ontario ================================= Send a Message to the List - cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com List Archive - https://list.cotyroneireland.com/empathy/list/cotyronelist.list.cotyroneireland.com Join the list by sending an email to - cotyronelist-subscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com To receive the Digest version, send an email to - jamckane@gmail.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to - cotyronelist-unsubscribe@list.cotyroneireland.com =================================

T

tchamberswi@gmail.com

Wed, Sep 13, 2023 1:17 PM

Thanks, Len. Since my third great grandfather John Chambers (1796-1867) lived in Newtownstewart ( not far from Omagh),the George Chambers listed could be related. Unfortunately, there is no Townland listed for that George Chambers.

We keep searching and your work, Len, has helped many of us!

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 13, 2023, at 3:24 AM, Len Swindley <len_swindley@hotmail.com> wrote:

Tom,

The location is not recorded; I purposefully supply the digitised typescript copy as the details are sketchy at best as queries will surely arise, but this is the best we shall find from this very early period. Omagh was the Assize town for Co Tyrone and I would hazard a guess that the court was held in Omagh. Further suggestions accepted.

Regards,

Len Swindley

From: Tom Chambers via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 12 September 2023 9:54 AM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com>
Cc: tchamberswi@gmail.com <tchamberswi@gmail.com>
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: New Content - Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630

I see a George Chambers on the ?jury?. Where would this have taken place?

Thanks

Tom Chambers

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 11, 2023, at 7:41 AM, James McKane via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:

? Summonister's Roll, County Tyrone, Northern Ireland July 1630

Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!

Jim McKane

Kitchener, Ontario

**

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---**

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