Re: Ducati Digest, Vol 132, Issue 3
I just have to respond to Mario's trashing of the new Monster design. First, though comments are mostly negative on the Internet, they sure aren't "99.9% negative" as he purports. Many would like to see the machine in-person before they reach a conclusion, and rightly so. Mario, I suggest you make a visual side view comparison of MT-09 (the real competitor, not MT-07) vs 2021 Monster before you say "it's a dead ringer" in design. Similar, yes, but far from identical. If your goal is to compete effectively in the mid-size naked market, it's not surprising your bike might look something like the market leaders. Plus, there's not too many body parts to work with on nakeds.
Next, let's think about a couple of automotive examples - Corvette and Jeep Cherokee, both which made radical exterior design changes. The owners of the older versions decried the changes, saying they no longer could carry the branding. Both went on to sales success.
I say we need to have a little more faith in Ducati planners and designers. They decided to remove longtime design cues in favor of better technologies (trellis to front frame, for example), make the ergonomics more adaptable to more riders and bring the bike back to its roots by reducing substantial weight, all with no price increase. Pretty lofty ambitions.
Ducati is not risking as much as they were in 1992 when the Monster saved the company from financial ruin. They had only a few models to sell back then, whereas today they have seven lines of bikes and the Monsters are not the top sellers (Multistradas are). This fact gives the designers freedom to take more risks.
There are a couple things I might suggest to Ducati before these bikes are released to production. First, the engine is so covered it's difficult to discern it's a V-twin. Why not do some raised areas on the cam belt covers, finished in aluminum, like the XDiavel, to highlight the V-twin format? Second, why not highlight the front frame they're so proud of by giving it some color or other treatment to make it stand out as a design element (instead of hiding it in black), like was done on some models with the trellis?
Roger Sears
On Monday, December 7, 2020, 11:46:09 AM EST, ducati-request@list.ducati.net ducati-request@list.ducati.net wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Ducati Scrambler (Gene Hunt)
2. Re: Ducati Scrambler (James Calandro)
3. Re: 2021 Ducati lineup - Monster Plus (Mario Baroz)
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 15:57:20 +0000
From: Gene Hunt Twolanefun@outlook.com
Subject: [Ducati] Ducati Scrambler
To: "ducati@list.ducati.net" ducati@list.ducati.net
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Lately I've developed a desire to do some back road and off road exploring,=
nothing to serious, there are sections of the https://ridebdr.com/mabdr/ t=
hat I would, like to ride. Finding an ADV bike with a seat height under 33"=
has been a challenge. found a couple of possibilities, RE Himalayan, Very=
sys 300X, but then I thought about the Ducati Scrambler Urban Enduro. Anyon=
e on the list have any experience with this model off road? Thanks - Gene
"I Know a Few Roads"
Patriot Guard Rider
AMA Charter Life Member #598925
Charter Member #166 of the Victory Motorcycle Club
DUCATI.net Member
USDESMO Member #1263
EX-MSF Instructor
EX-President Mid Atlantic Ducati Owners Club
Victory's - 01' V92SC, 04' Kingpin, 16' XC Tour
Ducati's - 02' M900, 13' Diavel
HD - 09' XR1200
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 11:43:48 -0500
From: James Calandro capo@carolina.rr.com
Subject: [Ducati] Re: Ducati Scrambler
To: Ducati Owners Group ducati@list.ducati.net
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CAP_=Ax6qm+7KB2KphBjTAKYivdp4C=-HDiPjqgsgCd_em4z1=A@mail.gmail.com
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Hey Gene
From what I have read they are OK for dirt and gravel roads but not really
up to serious off road riding. The Desert Sled is for that. From what you
describe I think it might work. They are not too heavy and the power is
more than adequate. I have a 2018 Cafe Racer and find its fueling to be
perfect and I enjoy it more than anything in recent memory.
Jim
Jim Calandro
il Capo
US DESMO
www.usdesmo.com
704-843-0429
"Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person
to die" Buddha
On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 10:57 AM Gene Hunt Twolanefun@outlook.com wrote:
Lately I've developed a desire to do some back road and off road
exploring, nothing to serious, there are sections of the
https://ridebdr.com/mabdr/ that I would, like to ride. Finding an ADV
bike with a seat height under 33" has been a challenge. found a couple of
possibilities, RE Himalayan, Verysys 300X, but then I thought about the
Ducati Scrambler Urban Enduro. Anyone on the list have any experience with
this model off road? Thanks - Gene
"I Know a Few Roads"
Patriot Guard Rider
AMA Charter Life Member #598925
Charter Member #166 of the Victory Motorcycle Club
DUCATI.net Member
USDESMO Member #1263
EX-MSF Instructor
EX-President Mid Atlantic Ducati Owners Club
Victory's - 01' V92SC, 04' Kingpin, 16' XC Tour
Ducati's - 02' M900, 13' Diavel
HD - 09' XR1200
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ad they are OK for dirt and gravel roads but not really up to serious off r=
oad riding.=C2=A0 The Desert Sled is for that.=C2=A0 From what you describe=
I think it might work.=C2=A0 They are not too heavy and the power is more =
than adequate.=C2=A0 I have a 2018 Cafe Racer and find its fueling to be pe=
rfect and I enjoy it more than anything in recent memory.=C2=A0 <br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:large"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:large">Jim<br clear=3D"all"></div><di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signat=
ure"><div dir=3D"ltr">Jim Calandro<br>il Capo<br>US DESMO<br><a href=3D"htt=
p://www.usdesmo.com" target=3D"_blank">www.usdesmo.com</a><br>704-843-0429<=
div><br></div><div>"Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and exp=
ecting the other person to die" =C2=A0Buddha</div></div></div></div><b=
r></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr=
">On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 10:57 AM Gene Hunt <<a href=3D"mailto:Twolanefu=
n@outlook.com">Twolanefun@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 16:45:39 +0000
From: Mario Baroz mariobaroz@hotmail.com
Subject: [Ducati] Re: 2021 Ducati lineup - Monster Plus
To: Ducati Owners Group ducati@list.ducati.net
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prd04.prod.outlook.com>
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It's a dead ringer for the Yamaha MT-07 and that is not a good thing. Yes,=
the 39lbs loss is a great thing but a poster on the Ducati Facebook page s=
aid it best... "18Kg was the weight of its soul." I myself do not like it =
at all. It does not say "Ducati" to me in any way, shape, or form. Speaki=
ng of the Ducati Facebook page, the feedback is OVERWHELMINGLY negative. I=
would put it at 99.9% negative.
Usually when you have an iconic design, especially one that is responsible =
for the financial health of your company, you try and retain at least some =
visual continuity. The new Mustang, VW Beetle, and Mini are the foremost e=
xamples I can think of. They're modern with at least some visual cues to t=
he past. This thing has no "Monster" in it whatsoever. I'm sure it's a gr=
eat bike and is probably better dynamically in every way than the 821 but n=
umbers don't tell the whole story.
Back to the Ducati Facebook page...someone, inevitably, brought up the 999/=
749 fiasco and how Ducati backtracked on that design. Someone else respond=
ed, factually, that those bikes are now beginning to be appreciated. To wh=
ich another poster wrote perhaps the most eloquent description of the new M=
onster...."The 999 was ahead of its time, its design was too radical for mo=
st. This is neither ahead of its time nor radical, it=92s simply more of th=
e same thing we see from other major bike manufacturers. It=92s worse than =
terrible, it=92s inconsequential." - Jake Fuchs
This new Monster just makes me sad.
Conversely, I test rode the V2. Wow! What a bike!!! If I were younger and=
more flexible, I think I would have to find a way to add that to my garage=
.
Mario
From: vicki@ducati.net vicki@ducati.net
Sent: Monday, December 7, 2020 9:07 AM
To: ducati@list.ducati.net ducati@list.ducati.net
Subject: [Ducati] 2021 Ducati lineup - Monster Plus
Ducati has been dropping the new line info in a once a week web series , mo=
st recently the final episode, the Monster and Monster Plus.
It=92s no longer a trellis frame and has lost 39.7 pounds compared to the M=
onster 821. HP is 111 @ 9250RPM.
I have included a pic of the Monster Plus for anyone that might not have se=
en it.
Curious what you think=85
Vicki
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End of Ducati Digest, Vol 132, Issue 3