Emigration from Lissan Parish, Co. Londonderry, Northern Ireland 1834-5
https://www.cotyroneireland.com/emigration/lissan.html

Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!

Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario

May you always Have Love to Share,
Health to Spare, and Friends who Care..

Cheryl,

There are no travel records for people going from Tyrone to Scotland. It was then, and still is, just a short domestic journey.  As you perhaps know there was a regular overnight sailing from Londonderry to Glasgow as well as numerous sailings from Belfast and Larne. Scotland was particularly attractive not only because there was plenty of work there, it was cheap and easy to get to and you could come home for the harvest or a wedding. So folk went back and forth all the time.

All you can do is note her first arrival in Scottish records, and use that as the approximate date of her move to Scotland. Check the 1861 Scottish census (on Scotlandspeople). Perhaps she married in Scotland before that in which case there may be a marriage to find there and children’s births which might narrow the date of her move a bit more. Note that if she happened to marry or have a child in Scotland in 1855 (only) the certificate should contain extra information including her age & place of birth in Ireland. (1855 was the first year of birth registration and this extra information was dropped after it as it was too time consuming to record). 

 
Elwyn

On Sunday, 3 January 2021, 11:58:14 GMT, CoTyroneIreland.com via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:  

Sorry but I would have no idea. Maybe someone else has a tip for you.
Happy New YearJim
Jim McKane
CoTyroneIreland.com

On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 5:37 AM Cheryl Humphreys via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:

Hi Jim,Can you please tell me how can I find out at Mary McCullough went from Tyrone to Glasgow in about 1850's.Thank you.Cheryl Humphreys 
On Sun, 3 Jan 2021, 9:02 pm James McKane via CoTyroneList, cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:

Emigration from Lissan Parish, Co. Londonderry, Northern Ireland 1834-5
Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!
Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario
May you always Have Love to Share,
Health to Spare, and Friends who Care..

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Cheryl,

There’s no simple way of finding Mary’s precise place of birth in Tyrone. There’s nowhere in Scotland where that would routinely have been noted.

I see that the marriage in 1852 was Church of Scotland (ie Presbyterian) but the son Charles’ baptism was RC. So perhaps a mixed marriage? Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church, so possibly she was brought up a Presbyterian.

Charles & Mary did have more children in Scotland. I see a birth in Reid St, Bridgeton, Glasgow on 10th March 1855 for Elizabeth Gibson. GROS ref  644/3 239. That was her second child and the previous one (presumably son Charles) was noted as deceased. The father Charles was born in Linlithgow and Mary in Tyrone. (No more detail than that, which is a pity. Quite often it gives the townland). She was 25 so born c 1830.

Looking at various trees on Ancestry, eg Gardiner/Gibson there was also a Mary Ann in 1858 and Margaret in 1860 and the family are in Carlton, Glasgow in the 1861 census. They appear to have moved to Brisbane in 1863.

One approach might be to check Scottish Poor Law records. If your ancestors claimed under the Poor Law in Scotland (as very many Irish did), then the Poor Law file usually records their parish of origin in Ireland as well as details of next of kin there. Poor Law records for the Glasgow area are kept in the Mitchell Library. They will normally do a look up for a small fee. You might want to contact them:

https://www.glasgowfamilyhistory.org.uk/ExploreRecords/Pages/Poor-Law.aspx

Usual advice in your situation is to search all the relevant Scottish censuses in case they give a more specific place of birth than Ireland. In this case the only relevant ones seem likely to be the 1861 and perhaps the 1851 as there's a fair chance she was in Scotland then too. Her husband was born in Scotland, so they must have met there and allowing for time to meet and court and then marry in 1852, perhaps she was there in 1851?  (People usually moved when they got to working age so she might have been in Scotland any time from about 1845 onwards).

Check who Mary was staying with in 1851 and neighbours in 1861 in those censuses. Sometimes people lodged with relatives or friends from home and you can sometimes research those families and find the place of origin that way. 

What about Mary’s death certificate in Australia? Does it give her place of birth? Also does it contain her parents names, as you really need them to be sure of finding the right Mary?

If you think Mary was a Presbyterian, then you could employ a researcher to go through all the Presbyterian church records for Tyrone in PRONI. (I would guess there are 50 to 60 Presbyterian churches in Tyrone. Not all will have baptism records for 1830 though. Possibly a days work to go through them all?).

Researchers in the PRONI area: http://sgni.net

 
Elwyn

On Sunday, 3 January 2021, 12:36:14 GMT, Cheryl Humphreys <cheryl30749@gmail.com> wrote:  

Hi Elwyn Souther,Thank you and Jim for your information, sorry but I do know that Mary McCullough did get married on the 19/12/1852 in Glasgow and she had a baby boy in 1853 he nsme was, Charles Gibson baptism 10/1853 at St Mary's in Glasgow.But I  can't find out where she left Ireland to go to Glasgow?Thank you Cheryl Humphreys 
On Sun, 3 Jan 2021, 11:21 pm Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList, cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:

Cheryl,

There are no travel records for people going from Tyrone to Scotland. It was then, and still is, just a short domestic journey.  As you perhaps know there was a regular overnight sailing from Londonderry to Glasgow as well as numerous sailings from Belfast and Larne. Scotland was particularly attractive not only because there was plenty of work there, it was cheap and easy to get to and you could come home for the harvest or a wedding. So folk went back and forth all the time.

All you can do is note her first arrival in Scottish records, and use that as the approximate date of her move to Scotland. Check the 1861 Scottish census (on Scotlandspeople). Perhaps she married in Scotland before that in which case there may be a marriage to find there and children’s births which might narrow the date of her move a bit more. Note that if she happened to marry or have a child in Scotland in 1855 (only) the certificate should contain extra information including her age & place of birth in Ireland. (1855 was the first year of birth registration and this extra information was dropped after it as it was too time consuming to record). 

 
Elwyn

On Sunday, 3 January 2021, 11:58:14 GMT, CoTyroneIreland.com via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:  

Sorry but I would have no idea. Maybe someone else has a tip for you.
Happy New YearJim
Jim McKane
CoTyroneIreland.com

On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 5:37 AM Cheryl Humphreys via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:

Hi Jim,Can you please tell me how can I find out at Mary McCullough went from Tyrone to Glasgow in about 1850's.Thank you.Cheryl Humphreys 
On Sun, 3 Jan 2021, 9:02 pm James McKane via CoTyroneList, cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:

Emigration from Lissan Parish, Co. Londonderry, Northern Ireland 1834-5
Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!
Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario
May you always Have Love to Share,
Health to Spare, and Friends who Care..

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Hi Cheryl,

It would be a bit like travelling on the Manly ferry!  Short distance, no records.

Check the Scottish census for Glasgow, both 1841 and 1851 and see if you can find her.  Also you need to know her county and parish in Ireland.

Shirley in OZ

From: Cheryl Humphreys via CoTyroneList [mailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com]
Sent: Sunday, 3 January 2021 11:36 PM
To: Elwyn Soutter; CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List
Cc: Cheryl Humphreys
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: New Content - Emigration from Lissan Parish, Co. Londonderry, Northern Ireland 1834-5

Hi Elwyn Souther,

Thank you and Jim for your information, sorry but I do know that Mary McCullough did get married on the 19/12/1852 in Glasgow and she had a baby boy in 1853 he nsme was, Charles Gibson baptism 10/1853 at St Mary's in Glasgow.

But I  can't find out where she left Ireland to go to Glasgow?

Thank you

Cheryl Humphreys

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021, 11:21 pm Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList, cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:

Cheryl,

There are no travel records for people going from Tyrone to Scotland. It was then, and still is, just a short domestic journey.  As you perhaps know there was a regular overnight sailing from Londonderry to Glasgow as well as numerous sailings from Belfast and Larne. Scotland was particularly attractive not only because there was plenty of work there, it was cheap and easy to get to and you could come home for the harvest or a wedding. So folk went back and forth all the time.

All you can do is note her first arrival in Scottish records, and use that as the approximate date of her move to Scotland. Check the 1861 Scottish census (on Scotlandspeople). Perhaps she married in Scotland before that in which case there may be a marriage to find there and children’s births which might narrow the date of her move a bit more. Note that if she happened to marry or have a child in Scotland in 1855 (only) the certificate should contain extra information including her age & place of birth in Ireland. (1855 was the first year of birth registration and this extra information was dropped after it as it was too time consuming to record).

Elwyn

On Sunday, 3 January 2021, 11:58:14 GMT, CoTyroneIreland.com via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:

Sorry but I would have no idea. Maybe someone else has a tip for you.

Happy New Year

Jim

Jim McKane
CoTyroneIreland.com

On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 5:37 AM Cheryl Humphreys via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:

Hi Jim,

Can you please tell me how can I find out at Mary McCullough went from Tyrone to Glasgow in about 1850's.

Thank you.

Cheryl Humphreys

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021, 9:02 pm James McKane via CoTyroneList, cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:

Emigration from Lissan Parish, Co. Londonderry, Northern Ireland 1834-5 https://www.cotyroneireland.com/emigration/lissan.html

Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!

Jim McKane

Kitchener, Ontario

May you always Have Love to Share,
Health to Spare, and Friends who Care..

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I  recall attending one of the respected Brian Mitchell’s lectures many years ago where he explained the simplicity of travelling to Scotland in the 1830s-40s; all that was required of Tyrone folk seeking seasonal work was to walk to Derry, pay their shilling fare and board the boat – it was that easy. Similar for folk seeking harvest work in England.

Regards,
LEN SWINDLEY, Melbourne, Australia

Sent from Mailhttps://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986 for Windows 10

From: Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneListmailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Sent: Sunday, 3 January 2021 11:21 PM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing Listmailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com
Cc: CoTyroneIreland.commailto:jmckane@cotyroneireland.com; Elwyn Souttermailto:elwynsoutter@yahoo.co.uk
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: New Content - Emigration from Lissan Parish, Co. Londonderry, Northern Ireland 1834-5

Cheryl,

There are no travel records for people going from Tyrone to Scotland. It was then, and still is, just a short domestic journey.  As you perhaps know there was a regular overnight sailing from Londonderry to Glasgow as well as numerous sailings from Belfast and Larne. Scotland was particularly attractive not only because there was plenty of work there, it was cheap and easy to get to and you could come home for the harvest or a wedding. So folk went back and forth all the time.

All you can do is note her first arrival in Scottish records, and use that as the approximate date of her move to Scotland. Check the 1861 Scottish census (on Scotlandspeople). Perhaps she married in Scotland before that in which case there may be a marriage to find there and children’s births which might narrow the date of her move a bit more. Note that if she happened to marry or have a child in Scotland in 1855 (only) the certificate should contain extra information including her age & place of birth in Ireland. (1855 was the first year of birth registration and this extra information was dropped after it as it was too time consuming to record).

Elwyn

On Sunday, 3 January 2021, 11:58:14 GMT, CoTyroneIreland.com via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:

Sorry but I would have no idea. Maybe someone else has a tip for you.

Happy New Year
Jim

Jim McKane
CoTyroneIreland.com

On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 5:37 AM Cheryl Humphreys via CoTyroneList <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:
Hi Jim,
Can you please tell me how can I find out at Mary McCullough went from Tyrone to Glasgow in about 1850's.
Thank you.
Cheryl Humphreys

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021, 9:02 pm James McKane via CoTyroneList, <cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.commailto:cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com> wrote:
Emigration from Lissan Parish, Co. Londonderry, Northern Ireland 1834-5https://www.cotyroneireland.com/emigration/lissan.html

Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!

Jim McKane
Kitchener, Ontario

May you always Have Love to Share,
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Len is quite correct about the ease and cost of getting to Scotland. The main money was from freight (particularly cattle from Tyrone and surrounding counties) going to Glasgow, and the passengers were just top up income.

 
Scottish farming practices changed significantly in the 1800s partially because of the industrial revolution (which largely by-passed Ireland as it has no natural resources) which caused people to leave farming for better paid jobs in heavy industry, and also because lowland farmers started to improve and expand their farms. The old cottar and labourers cottages were pulled down and the folk left (It was a system of forced clearance but not one that was resisted as in many cases it was done gradually as leases expired rather than via eviction and in most cases they ended up better off with better paid jobs in local villages or in the Forth-Clyde industrial belt) but this left a shortage of seasonal workers on the Scottish farms. This gap was neatly filled by tens of thousands of Irish people who went over every year. Plus of course many went to Scotland permanently too, drawn by the same economic factors that pulled labourers off Scottish farms.

Elwyn

On Monday, 4 January 2021, 11:34:39 GMT, Len Swindley <len_swindley@hotmail.com> wrote:  

I  recall attending one of the respected Brian Mitchell’s lectures many years ago where he explained the simplicity of travelling to Scotland in the 1830s-40s; all that was required of Tyrone folk seeking seasonal work was to walk to Derry, pay their shilling fare and board the boat – it was that easy. Similar for folk seeking harvest work in England.

Regards,

LEN SWINDLEY, Melbourne, Australia

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList
Sent: Sunday, 3 January 2021 11:21 PM
To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List
Cc: CoTyroneIreland.com; Elwyn Soutter
Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Re: New Content - Emigration from Lissan Parish, Co. Londonderry, Northern Ireland 1834-5

Cheryl,

There are no travel records for people going from Tyrone to Scotland. It was then, and still is, just a short domestic journey.  As you perhaps know there was a regular overnight sailing from Londonderry to Glasgow as well as numerous sailings from Belfast and Larne. Scotland was particularly attractive not only because there was plenty of work there, it was cheap and easy to get to and you could come home for the harvest or a wedding. So folk went back and forth all the time.

All you can do is note her first arrival in Scottish records, and use that as the approximate date of her move to Scotland. Check the 1861 Scottish census (on Scotlandspeople). Perhaps she married in Scotland before that in which case there may be a marriage to find there and children’s births which might narrow the date of her move a bit more. Note that if she happened to marry or have a child in Scotland in 1855 (only) the certificate should contain extra information including her age & place of birth in Ireland. (1855 was the first year of birth registration and this extra information was dropped after it as it was too time consuming to record). 

Elwyn

On Sunday, 3 January 2021, 11:58:14 GMT, CoTyroneIreland.com via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:

Sorry but I would have no idea. Maybe someone else has a tip for you.

Happy New Year

Jim

Jim McKane
CoTyroneIreland.com

On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 5:37 AM Cheryl Humphreys via CoTyroneList cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:

Hi Jim,

Can you please tell me how can I find out at Mary McCullough went from Tyrone to Glasgow in about 1850's.

Thank you.

Cheryl Humphreys 

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021, 9:02 pm James McKane via CoTyroneList, cotyronelist@list.cotyroneireland.com wrote:

Emigration from Lissan Parish, Co. Londonderry, Northern Ireland 1834-5

Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI!

Jim McKane

Kitchener, Ontario

May you always Have Love to Share,
Health to Spare, and Friends who Care..

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